65lb Motor too heavy?

Moderator: GreenLake

65lb Motor too heavy?

Postby mnic001 » Sun May 16, 2021 5:10 pm

Hey all, I have a Day Sailer clone, an Annapolis Discoverer 18. I believe it's 100 pounds heavier and possibly as much as 12" longer than a DS. But let's pretend it's a DS for the sake of discussion.

The big question is: will a 65 pound outboard be way too much weight hanging off the stern? My boat came with a mount that adds another 6" of horizontal distance (and lever arm) off the transom.

Context:
I am 99% sure that I want a motor. Primarily as a backup plan including times when the weather doesn't coincide with our trailering schedule (e.g. we're going camping on an island for a few days with a dock and you can only get there by boat). We've only sailed on our local lake so far (Quannapowitt in Wakefield MA), but want to trailer it to try and sail near family places (Upper Frenchman's Bay, North of Mount Desert Island and around Stonington CT). I'm going to be sailing with my little kids and my wife doesn't love only having paddles. Im mostly convinced she's right.

I would love to avoid gas. It feels so antithetical to the point of sailing, but I see the argument for it all the same. The EP Carry sounds great, but I think it sounds underpowered for potential wind/current woes and maybe a little less margin on the battery capacity than I'd like. For reasons I can't remember I've written off trawling motors.

I stumbled across propane outboards today, via references to the now-apparently-defunct Lehr. I think the Mercury/Tohatsu 5HP propane outboard long (20") or ultra-long (25") shaft sounds like it hits the sweet spot of reliability and being moderately more eco-conscious than a gas motor.

Thanks in advance for your brain bandwidth!
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Re: 65lb Motor too heavy?

Postby GreenLake » Mon May 17, 2021 6:15 pm

2.5HP is the sweet spot for a DS. You don't need more to drive it in displacement mode approaching hull speed. And when the wind loads w/ sails down are so high that you'd need more power than that, you shouldn't have been on the water in a DS. (Adverse currents just make you go slower, hull speed limits how fast you can go, so unless you are equipped to take the boat on a plane, you won't be able to motor against 4knt of current - probably conditions you should avoid).

You can get electrics in the 1hp to 3hp equivalent range. They would be more powerful than an EP Carry. All of them are a bit pricey; for range anxiety figure that half speed will increase your range (it may try your patience, but in calm conditions it will get you home that extra distance).

Trolling motors are dirt cheap, not optimized for use as outboard (use up to 3 times the # of Watts/knot of boatspeed than a fully optimized motor like the EP Carry). If you bring 3 batteries, you can get a bit over 2hrs at max speed. And lead-acid batteries are relatively cheap (and with an extension cable, gauge 0, you can keep them low near the mast, for balance).

65lbs is really heavy 6" off your transom. It's 10% of your hull weight.

For cruising, where you may need to motor a bit every day, you'd need to figure out a way to re-charge. Solar, I think. Or sail to a dock with power :) (Don't laugh, that's what I've done for years on one my regular outings).

I used to have a trolling motor. Got tired of the weight and inconvenience of lead acid and decided I would afford the luxury of an EP Carry. Delivers about the same range and speed (perhaps a few % more speed, and a few % less range than I had on 2 lead acids), but so much more convenient. The "bigger" electric outboards will feel more like an outboard; go check the specs on range and potential speeds - if you enjoy electric, might be worth it.

Propane: I've been on a boat that had the old Lehr 2.5. Worked fine, once the owner found the magic trick to bleed the feed on some website. %HP is overkill.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: 65lb Motor too heavy?

Postby jalmeida51 » Mon May 17, 2021 9:57 pm

I have a 2.5 20 inch long shaft Yamaha 4 stroke. I have never used more than 1/2 throttle. It weights about 42 pounds. I have been in 2kts. of current. I think 65 pounds is a lot of weight hanging off your transom. Anything smaller than 4 H.P. does not have reverse, just forward and neutral. To get reverse you have to rotate the motor 180 degrees which can be a pain if you need reverse now. The 2.5 just has a small internal gas tank so you should carry an extra gallon. The 4 you can attach a 3 gallon external gas tank.

I don't think you need a 25 long shaft a 20 should do. My 2.5 has never cavitated due to waves or chop.

Not sure about propane. I have never seen one in use.

For peace and quiet and not traveling long distance maybe a battery powered motor would be right for you. I looked at the Torpedo but the price was twice the price of a gas outboard.

Good luck with your purchase, John
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Re: 65lb Motor too heavy?

Postby Anstigmat » Tue May 18, 2021 1:35 pm

65lbs is sooo heavy. I wouldn't want that hanging off my stern. As as humanly possibly (i.e. I can afford it) I will be ordered the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0+. Great range, light weight, cheaper than Torqueedo... I think I'm somewhat influenced by my old dirty 2-stroke 4.5hp but I would personally like to run from gas as fast as I can. Even if you ignore the environmental reasons...they are just a better fit.

In the meantime if you want to go gas everyone seems to love the Honda 2.3hp 4 stroke. They're air cooled too which is nice.
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Re: 65lb Motor too heavy?

Postby mnic001 » Tue May 18, 2021 2:19 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies. Sounds like it's too heavy and overpowered. I still want to avoid gas.

I'm re-considering the EP Carry (for what must be the fifteenth time). Thanks Anstigmat for the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 Plus suggestion. I like the increased power vs. the EP Carry. Although I don't know why the Torqeedo-styling seems more prevalent than the EP Carry styling. Why do these things have to look like spaceships?

Also unfortunate that everything is out of stock everywhere!
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Re: 65lb Motor too heavy?

Postby GreenLake » Tue May 18, 2021 3:52 pm

Have you looked for anything offered used? I'm curious whether these have been long enough on the market to have a used electric outboard marketplace yet.

I totally get you on the styling. I think if it hadn't been for that I would have jumped on the first Torqeedo when they came out. But I couldn't warm up to that. Then I saw the EP Carry at a boat show and decided I liked it, even though it's basically about bottom end of the range where required power levels are concerned. (I must admit that I liked the long control lever and the ability to raise the motor with a simple pull w/o having to reach back and disengage something).

One advantage of having a motor that consumes about the least amount of electric power is that you can recharge in reasonable time with even a smallish solar panel.

Much depends on what your real needs are. I've pretty much established that for my purposes: In all the years I've had my DS, I've pretty much managed to rely on sail power for over 90% of the time. Thus I need a motor for localized calm spots, traversal under bridges, etc. Sometimes in marinas. I've had nights where the wind almost died, but generally, I've managed even then to sail slowly or ghost the bulk of the trip and use the motor only in areas of dead calm.

If I were to go on much longer trips, I'd spring for a second battery. Up to now, I've managed to come in below the range limit and haven't really needed to try to get longer range by going slower. So, I'm a bit hesitant to pay that much for something that I might use on very few occasions.

If I were to join a longer, multi-day event, then second battery and a solar panel would be on my list.

But I'm totally aware that my experience is based on the places I've sailed and the style of sailing that I prefer. Other people are different: just recently I looked out from the beach and saw a nice small-ish keelboat that was on a mooring (open water all around). A guy came out with his kid to take the boat out. They goat everything ready and then motored off (out of sight). Came back a bit later with the sails down (but looked like they had been used). I would have sailed off the mooring, instead of motoring across open water to go sailing.
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