CB foil project

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: CB foil project

Postby GreenLake » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:02 pm

With epoxy, you don't need to let each coat fully cure separately, a "green" coat will bond better to the next, and there's no solvent that can get trapped by the top coat. Obviously, at some points you might reach your intended thickness an need to sand.
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:15 pm

Right GL, I remember reading about that...you get better bonding between layers if you leave a bit of tack between coats; unless you sand in between. In my case i had filled a few holes and divots with epoxy thickened with sawdust. There was still a slight tackiness to the board before I started laying the glass (this is NOT my favorite thing to do, BTW)...I mixed a fresh batch and slowly worked the resin in the cloth, trying to avoid wrinkles (PITA). then squeegeeing and trimming the excess off the trailing edge....came out beauty, eh? (a very Canadian thing to say...)
photos:
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1678
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby GreenLake » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:00 pm

Sorry to hear that working with glass gives you so much trouble. I admit I needed a bit of practice to get better, interspersed with reading about it again and again and watching some of the many videos out there. One of the things I did was to do some sample projects, just to get a feel for the material and how to work it. There's usually something around the house - I duplicated a large broken part (tub-like) on a child's toy by using the old part as a mold. This thing will outlast several generations now, but I got some useful experience.

I since learned about the trick of laying up laminate on (or even between) sheets of plastic (or wax paper). That makes wetting out much easier, and you can use one layer of the plastic like a "backing tape" and use it in transferring the laminate (as well as help it get a smooth surface - slightly stiff plastic works great - I even apply it over filler to get better control over final surface).

I'm sure, once you are on your 3rd CB, this will all have become easy ;)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:17 am

Well, it's not so much "trouble", it's more of a procedural thing to get a good glass layer in without bubbles or wrinkles; and of course the latter step of sanding, fairing and more sanding/polishing (wet sanding) to get a smooth surface. I obtained a good layer of glass on the board but I rushed the "final epoxy" layer a bit, equating to a lot of extra sanding. That's where I'm at now...though I've only put a couple of hours of sanding so far, I'm trying to clear out a few more hours of sanding/filling (I 'll need a good 8!).
But the board came out really nice and can't wait to try it out

Cheers
Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby GreenLake » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:39 am

Glad you are happy with how it came out.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:52 am

Finished polishing with 400 grit (wet) today...and I don't have the heart to paint the board....just want to pin it in and try it out now!
Pictures coming soon!
I want to thank the people that have contributed all their knowledge and experience...you know who you are!

Plan to put the boat in next weekend (weather permitting) I'll report on its performance then
Cheers
Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:45 pm

And now, the final set of pictures of the finished board installed (finished installing it tonight while BBQ-ing....
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Hopefully tomorrow or monday....the test!
Cheers
Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:28 pm

Wait: you did all that, *and* BBQ'ed ?!?!

Where's the pix of the chicken (or ribs?) 8)
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: CB foil project

Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:47 pm

Looking good. Too bad we weren't invited to the BBQ - if that looked as good it must have been phenomenal.
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:29 am

OT: hee-hee...'twas my wife's birthday, so her favorite maple bourbon marinated stake tips were on the grill with asparagus tips and roasted potatoes (seen in background on the last picture is the BBQ, a bottle of Bass ale, etc)

Back to the topic, sanding with 400 wet went quick and left the board smooth as a baby's bee-hind. The board went in nice and snug, but seems to pivot easily. Weather and tides are crappy today (it might improve in the PM but there's a chance of rain...we'll see). But that must have been the fastest mast-stepping/dry-launch/careen/board replacement done to date...(I didn't put the tips on the barbie until the board was in) I did have to re-file the square hole for the handle, where some epoxy had dripped in during glassing.

Now the next step is a new rudder, but I want to find me some nice mahogany or maple....
Cheers
Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:55 pm

Well...I got the boat in the water this morning for about an hour (great bay). The tide was on the ebb at adams point and the wind was about 5 kts from the southeast (wind and tide coming from the same direction. By the time I got the boat out on the wind the tide was doing about 1 kt, and it was up to 2 kts in about an hour with the wind dying down.

Anyway, the board works wonderfully!...as much as I could tell, and considering the circumstances, the boat felt like it pointed better; the current kept the board from stalling...I measured 3.7 kts on the stbd tack (no difference on the port tack, though I didn't really check). What I did check was COG on the GPS and compass course indicated about a 10º difference...I won't know exactly what the true difference was until I calculate the current speed @ plot out my tacks. The rudder felt neutral with a tiny bit of weather helm...hard to really judge in such light winds. But the overall "feeling was that the boat pointed much better upwind and "felt faster"...only way to judge is sparring with another boat...anybody?
Cheers
M
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Mon May 26, 2014 6:57 pm

not to bump an old thread but I finally got to test the new foil in some wind today...WOW!....although it was during the earlier part of the trip where winds were still light where I noticed the board was really doing its job, later, with the wind on a bowline, and later on a dead reach the boat was making a steady 7 knots with the pregnant wife and son on board...then I downloaded my GPS track for the day and I discovered I hit EIGHT knots. That would explain the vortexing I heard (the hum of the board caused by tip vortex)..yes it should have been up, but couldn't get to the handle due to my pregnant wife, and the wind was shifting a lot during gusts. I'd say the foil project was a success; now on to the rudder...
Cheers!
Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby GreenLake » Tue May 27, 2014 12:04 am

Never mind about bumping when you have new info. Congrats. Both on the CB and that you have a pregnant wife that goes out with you...!
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Re: CB foil project

Postby Lil Maggie » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:51 pm

here I go bumpin' again....I put the foil to a test on 3 races today (the Maine lakes region Sailing Association)...raced against a J-22, a FS, Catalina 22, etc...I smoked the FS on 2 out of 3 races, came in 6th, 3rd and 4th...not bad for sailing solo. Upwind performance is phenomenal compared to the old CB...anything over 6.5-7 kts boat speed though and I get tip vortexing (CB hum)...so when reaching (planing) I bring the board all the way up.
That is all for now
BTW if you lose your spinnaker halyard, don't try climbing up the mast to replace it, even if it looks calm enough (oh yeah...I went swimming!)
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
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Re: CB foil project

Postby K.C. Walker » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:31 am

Good advice on not climbing the mast. LOL

When overhauling the bottom of my boat I had the centerboard out and thought that I would build a new one. Well… I really needed to get back out on the water before I got that done so I just reshaped the original somewhat. That definitely helped but I've always thought I would get around to doing a new one. You're inspiring me!

The Daysailer hull shape is really nice but the original foils, not so much. I've read that in handicap racing people hate to see a good Daysailer because it's a ratings beater, I think foils really help in that regard.

I have the same vibration from vortices when planing. When I have my UPS sail up it really helps to have some board in the water even downwind. It's weird how you can feel the drag from the vortices, sort of like tapping the brakes. At least for my board I'm able to raise it just not even halfway and lose the vortices. Something I learned after the fact, apparently, if you modify your board with 1/8 of an inch wide square trailing edge it cleans it all up and makes it more efficient.
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