Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Moderator: GreenLake

Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby Bob Damon » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:23 pm

Hi folks, in the Summer 2013 DS Quarterly I had an article regarding the wood coamings on the DS 1 and the associated bylaw. Bylaw 3, paragraph 5.8 states "Wooden cockpit coamings may be cut down. Coamings may not be removed if they are intended to to be used as structural support to side decking. Owners of double-hull Rebel, Spindrift, and Precision models may remove the coamings." The intent of the bylaw was to maintain the coamings on the O'day DS 1 boats that came equipped with them, and allow the later version double hull Rebel, Spindrift, and Precision models to remove the decorative coaming, however as it is written, it seems to say the coamings can be removed unless they are part of the structural support. On the early "wood seat" Day Sailers, the wood does not act as a structural support, and on the "flotation tank" models, if someone adds side deck support where the coamings were, can they remove them. The Bylaw is vague, I would like feedback on this bylaw to change it to not allow the DS 1 boats with wood coamings to remove them, or perhaps to allow people to remove the wood since later model (McLaughlin, SLI, Cape Cod) do not have wood. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks, Bob Damon, Class Measurer
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Re: Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby Mike Gillum » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:01 pm

Bob,
As you noted the side decks of the O'Day Classics, SLI & Cape Cod DS are reinforced by a vertical wall either from the hull in the case of the O'Day Classics that the wood bench seats fasten to or side tanks molded into the one piece deck in the case of the SLI & Cape Cod.
As the owner of a newer model O'Day DS #2772 my personal feeling is that the unsupported side decks should either required to have the existing wood coamings remain or if the owner wishes to remove the wood coamings then a prescribed number of reinforcements under the deck that are fiberglassed to the hull and deck or struts that bridge the opening between the bottom of the deck and the top of the side seat tanks be required to support the side deck.
That would fall in line with the existing DS Class requirement that a strut be installed between the foredeck and bow tank if the bulkhead above the bow tank is removed that came with newer O'Day DS.
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Re: Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby GreenLake » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:12 pm

Bob,

the primary purpose of the rule requiring structural support when (structural) coamings are removed appears to me to protect owners from damaging their own boats. Being allowed to cut the coamings down flush with the deck (on an original DS1) gives you the definite competitive advantage of making it easier to hike out. There seems comparatively less competitive advantage in being allowed to further remove the remaining bits of the coamings - I simply can't believe that removing such modest remaining weight this close to the waterline has overwhelming effect. My view would be that this background should factor into how the class rules are defined. Mike is right when he compares that to the rule for the forward bulkhead.

The question then seems to boil down to, what kinds of solutions give you adequate structural support. The original DS1 has wood carlins into which the coamings are screwed. If someone were to replace these by a rectangular and stiff hollow profile, then I would think that could support the side deck just as well as the original coamings did. Ditto for replacing the carlins by somewhat beefier hardwood version that is well bonded to the deck. Struts, if spaced closely enough, would of course work, as would beefing up and increasing the number of plywood triangles (brackets) between hull and side deck. As would filling the gap with flotation and walling it off.

I don't see a problem with the intent of allowing other means of reinforcement, but unlike the bulkhead, the number of reasonable solutions is much larger, owing to the long unsupported span. This would be reflected in the wording of the rule. Here's a suggestion:

Wood coamings may be removed where the side decks are supported for substantially their whole length by a wall or series of struts connecting them to seats or flotation tanks or by strengthening of carlins and brackets, including additional brackets, under the side decks, sufficient to make up for the loss of structural support from removing the coamings.


You could also give a maximal allowed distance between struts and another, smaller one, for brackets, as well as minimal cross section for carlins. That would make measurement decisions easier for those solutions, but it might be overengineering the rule, because I see its main purpose in preventing people from damaging their own boats. Therefore, requiring them to do at least something should be enough to get them to think about the consequences of removing a structural element from their boat, without either having to limit the approaches or somehow verifying that it is 100% equivalent or better.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby Mike Gillum » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:42 pm

GreenLake,
I've seen several newer model O'Day DS1 where the deck at lip of the rubrail has been flexed often enough to shear that lip clear through and that repair can't be an easy one short of separating the deck from the hull or flipping the boat laying a "big" fillet with fiberglass tape reinforcement on the inside?
Hence the need to support the deck to avoid that from occuring in the first place.
Most of the competitive Classic Lido 14's have 2-3 carbon-fibre wrapped wood battens per side (think the size of a painter's wood stir stick) fiberglassed in place running diagonally between the juncture of the hull/seat tank up to the inboard edge of the deck that is similar in size and scope to the newer model O'Day DS1.
I can get one of my Lido 14 friends to get me photographs to show.
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Re: Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby GreenLake » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:55 pm

Mike, appreciate your detailed knowledge of failure modes. Would like to see some details.

Getting good information how you as an owner can avoid damage to your boat should motivate you to do the right thing. It's a bit tricky to legislate this for a class like the DS, because many other interior modifications are unregulated and it's easy to end up with rules that outlaw something that's otherwise functional.

That's why I tried to look at the intent of having a rule about the coamings - it seems not primarily about competitive advantage, but about preventing people from doing something stupid that will be expensive or impossible to fix.

If it's possible to call out 2-3 things that work, and if it's workable to allow an "or similarly effective" in the wording of the rule w/o totally overburdening the class measurer, then I would go for that.
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Re: Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby Bob Damon » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:01 pm

Great discussion so far, this is what we need to make a decision. Keep it coming, Thanks!!
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Re: Removal of wood coamings on DS 1 boats

Postby Mike Gillum » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:34 pm

GreenLake & Bob,
Texted one of my Lido 14 friend's and though his boat is in the shop being massaged he'll ask for photographs and measurements of his deck supports so we can share.
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