Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:08 pm

As low as possible!!

The rear vertical eye might work, but mount flush with deck, or near as. Another option is a U bail (shown on the same page) that you simply throughbolt as low as you can.

Forward eye can be less substantial, as upward force on a vang is smaller.

"It seems a popular thing" is not sufficient rationale in this case. Unless you are clear that this is a must-have because it will get you some functionality you are missing, it's wasted money (and time).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:01 pm

One hiccup that I just ran into...

The Harken site lists a 'max sail area' for the Dinghy vang. This figure is 125ft squared. The DS1 of course has a sail area of 145ft squared. I still have an opportunity to swap this out for a different set up. I wish that if this was so obviously for the Laser class they'd just call it a Laser class vang and be done with it...relative newbies like me wouldn't make mistaken purchases.

Any advice?
Anstigmat
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:42 pm

Yeah, that would put you over by 16%.

The max (static) force on your vang should be right when the DS capsizes(*). That force depends on the righting moment you have. A dinghy with a crew on a trapeze may have a righting moment that's more than 16% bigger than what you have (or not - if you sail with two beefy dudes on the rail).

Up the capsize limit, sail force goes up with the square of the wind speed, but linear in the sail area. So, if you're not pushing yourself usually, the difference may not matter as much.

For the kit you ordered, per Tom's drawing, the most loaded parts would be the double block and the connection of the lower unit to the mast. The double block you could upgrade easily, if you felt it was under specd. The connection to the mast might fail, but unlike a block, it would work fine up to that point. A block might get deformed or hard to use near the limit.

Also, if a vang fails, that's not the worst outcome. Better the vang as the weak link than the boom.

Your thoughts?

(*) this assumes you use your vang for vang sheeting going upwind. Going downwind, things are more complicated, because your boat will rarely pitchpole, but your apparent wind will be 5 knots slower (or more, if you get your DS on a plane).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:30 pm

That does make me feel a little bit better. Perhaps I'll install the lower unit using the bail you mentioned which is through bolted and connect to the pin with a shackle (the pin runs horizontally). If the upper block becomes deformed at any time I'll just swap it out to a beefier version. It will look a bit tiny in the scheme... I may use dyneema for the upper to lower connection and then regular line from D&R for the lower part that I tension.

Holding off on the traveler now mostly to yes save some time and money...I'd rather get out and sail this season!
Anstigmat
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby Vanalien » Thu Apr 14, 2022 6:04 pm

Anstigmat wrote:One hiccup that I just ran into...

The Harken site lists a 'max sail area' for the Dinghy vang. This figure is 125ft squared. The DS1 of course has a sail area of 145ft squared...


Since the vang is only operating on the mainsail, and the mainsail area is 100ft squared, I would think the sail area is within the limits of the vang.
Steve
"Nellie Ruth" - 1985 DS2 Anniversary Edition #12819
Little Canada, MN
Vanalien
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:40 am
Location: Little Canada, MN

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:50 am

Vanalien wrote:Since the vang is only operating on the mainsail, and the mainsail area is 100ft squared, I would think the sail area is within the limits of the vang.


Good point!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Wed May 18, 2022 7:10 pm

IMG_5733.jpg
IMG_5733.jpg (142.5 KiB) Viewed 449 times


I just wanted to check with the brain trust on this positioning before I go drilling holes in my mast. This is just high enough to where it's not hitting the cuddy. The bail should be about 2ft from the mast?
Anstigmat
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 19, 2022 12:35 am

The part isn't ideal for the application, because it looks like you might lose 3". One way to do that, is to attache the ring at the very bottom and then find a way to add a bit of a spacer. Whether a short bit of rope or some shackles. Just enough to let the part with the cleat come off the deck enough, but without compromising the already tight angle for the vang.

I don't have my boat accessible to give you a measurement along the boom, but you'll either find that in some old post, or by guessing it off one of the pictures.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Thu May 19, 2022 7:39 am

I’ve seen some people run theirs “upside down” so to speak. I wonder if I could have the cleated part on the boom and the double block essentially where the mast meets the deck…
Anstigmat
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 19, 2022 8:46 am

The range of adjustment for a vang is limited. That's why I think you could get away with adding a bit of a spacer - if your cleat can be tied or shackled into a line.

Now, the reverse setup just looks like this:

2663

It's been working fine for me, but I don't (yet?) play the vang continuously.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Thu May 19, 2022 10:19 am

Yeah I mean now that I see that and the way I sail generally it seems like it would be harder for me to go farther forward to adjust the vang than having it closer to above the jib blocks. I think running it 'upside down' is making more sense to me.

For the shackles I was already thinking of using dyneema soft shackles. They seem flexible literally and figuratively for this purpose.
Anstigmat
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Purpose of the Traveler on a DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 19, 2022 11:00 am

sounds like you are all set.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6639
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Previous

Return to Racing/Performance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest