original blocks? suggestions to replace?

[SpeckledTrout]

Folks, thanks for your responses. It occurs to me that I don't know if the original jib tracks have a backing plate inside the hull (and if so, how are those constructed). Seems logical there would have some kind of backing plates given the strain on the OEM blocks (no ratchet, etc). Does anyone know?

[GreenLake]

Hadn't thought about that: the load on the jib track cars does change some based on whether you use ratchet blocks or not. Assuming the ratchet block is perfectly efficient and requires only minimal tension on the free end, the entire load from the jib sheet pulls forward.

For a regular, 90 degree turn around a block, there's the same force going forward as going sideways. The track will have to offset the tension in the part continuing to the CB trunk, so there's a net pull outward that matches the strength of the pull forward (which the track stop transmits along the track).

Now, ratchet blocks do require some tension on the free part to keep them engaged, and, more importantly, they act like free blocks whenever you pull in the jib, so you don't gain much in terms of required strength of the jib tracks.

In any case, yes, you do need backing, and you may need to cut holes for some inspection ports so you can get an idea what was provided for your boat and whether you can reuse that.

Inspection ports are covered in many DSII specific threads, just go back in time a bit.

Also, you can get neat little nets that make pockets inside the port, so you can stow things underneath the covers to keep them out of the water - (except that the bilge water can get at them). One guy I sailed with would stuff small plastic bottles in there as he was emptying it during long trips. At the end of the season, he would fish them out again.

[SpeckledTrout]

Folks, much thanks for the recommendations. I bought the Ronstan C-cleat 'medium' size and it looks like it'll be a good fit. To be sure, I'll have to drill new holes to install these new cleats and would value feedback beforehand (cutting holes in boats is never an easy decision to me).

I do have a question for others who've made this upgrade:
option 1) did you install a backing plate when you upgraded the cleat? If so, did you have to remove the CB to access the area to affix the backing plate? Or, did you already have some kind of access port to reach that? Seems unlikely one would install an access port on the side of the CB trunk.
option 2) if you didn't install a backing plate, did you drill a hole and first insert a anchor/fastener .... and then used a screw to secure it?
option 3) if you didn't install a backing plate and you didn't use an anchor/fastener, did you simply screw the cleat to the top of the CB trunk?

Much thanks for any feedback.

[Woreign]

I just installed identical cleats on the angled surfaces of the centerboard trunk on my DS2. I faced them toward the jib rails so that they would hold the sheets at a perpendicular angle. To attach them, I made a paper template of the cleat so I could identify the location of the holes. I started two pilot holes, then used the cleat itself to center my drill bit. With the pilot hole, I knew the drill would remain centered and not drift. After the holes were drilled, I took a round stone Dremel bit and sanded small depressions around each hole. This prevented the gel coat from cracking when I screwed the stainless steel screw into the hole. I ran the screw into each hole first to set the threads in the fiberglass, then attached the cleat.

From what I read in this forum, there is at least 3/4" clearance between the trunk and the centerboard. So I chose screws that were long enough to extend that deep into the trunk. The screws definitely took a good bite into the fiberglass, so I'm not worried about them pulling out, especially when you consider that the forces they will encounter will be sheer and not perpendicular to the hole. If you're worried about using screws in the trunk, consider that the centerboard uphaul cleat is attached with screws with similar sheer forces pulling at it.

[SpeckledTrout]

Woreign, thanks for your note, I was thinking similarly. Using a appropriate SS screw that gets ample bite into the fiberglass ought to be sufficient. Plus, that's far simpler than other methods (and it doesn't lock me out of other options down the road).

[GreenLake]

Remember, you can always upgrade to ratchet blocks. That would tend to further limit the forces on the cleats.... and is nicer on the crew.

[SpeckledTrout]

Greenlake, agree completely. I'm wondering if I could accomplish the same thing more easily.

I'd value hearing folks' opinions/feedback if I simply replaced the existing block with a new ratchet block, but I retained the existing jib track? As you can see in the photo, I have every reason to believe my jib track is OEM to the boat, circa 1970. There's nothing wrong with it and it appears that it could be retrofitted with a new ratchet.

Benefits to doing this...
1) avoid cutting access ports on each side
2) would avoid the costs of replacing the jib track
3) avoids the effort to make a clean installation.

Any cons?

[GreenLake]

If you can indeed replace the block on the existing cars, I see no reason why you would need to upgrade the tracks.

The key will be whether you can free the "U" that's mounted to the slide. Better not plan on inserting shackles or other extraneous parts - you'll want to recreate the approximate geometry you have now.

[Woreign]

I haven't taken a photo yet, but I replaced the stock donut-hole and cleat with a swivel pulley. It attached easily to the piece that slides on the track with the stock pin.

I also like how the pulley lays flat against the side of the cockpit, making it less painful if a crew member happens to lean against it.

[SpeckledTrout]

Woreign, I'd value seeing the photo of how you configured that to work.

I'm planning to get the same ratchet block (Ronstan 55) that Greenlake recommended. I checked its dimensions and that block is ~0.5in longer than my current OEM block so I want to minimize what I use to attach it to the jib track fitting.

[Woreign]

Here you go!

Pulley1.JPG (58.44 KiB) Viewed 20259 times

Pulley2.JPG (57.22 KiB) Viewed 20259 times

[SpeckledTrout]

Folks, much thanks for your feedback/suggestions on this thread. I replaced the jib blocks w/ Ronstan Ratchet 55 blocks per Green Lake's suggestion and they fit great. I used Woriegn's suggestion to simply affix those to the existing OEM jib track and it worked well. And, I followed several suggestions to replace the OEM cam cleats with Ronstan 'Medium' ones. Now, it's time to go sailing.

Thanks!

[tomodda]

Just to finish up this thread, Andrew generously donated his old cleats (original topic of this post) to me. Lucky me, much appreciated. The teeth are in fine shape, but as Andrew warned one cleat was barely moving. Being as I had a rainy afternoon off from work, I did a quick refurb. Disassemble, spritz of brake cleaner (nasty stuff but effective), 10 minutes of wire brush on the bench grinder, spot of silicone lube spray, put back together, and good as new! Snap, snap, snap... These babys will be holding my spin sheets before you know it. Just goes to show you, good gear - Schaefer in this case - can live forever. Just needs some TLC, but don't we all? Thank you, Andrew!

[IslandFarmer]

On the "Detached jib sheet tracks" thread https://forum.daysailer.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5813 I wrote two days ago:

I also now realize the difference between the Ronstan Series 40 Orbit Single BB Block with Cleat Swivel https://www.ronstan.com/series-40-orbit-blockstm-4.html and the Ronstan Orbit Series 40 Single Block w/ Becket Swivel Cam Cleat and Fairlead https://www.ronstan.com/s40-bb-orbit-blocksinglebktcleatswivelhead.html is the all important becket. Defender here in CT has the becket one for $99. Back in 2023, I made a paper mockup of the one without the becket and got discouraged. I have now removed the fairlead/cam cleat from the jib car and plan to put the clevis pin through the becket. I just added a paper clip "becket" to my model and now see how great it will be.

Green Lake responded:

I didn't quite get your discussion of the blocks. It looks like it should have been part of the discussion on the other thread. Here's a link to one of my posts in that thread, explaining my setup and preferences which are different from what you seem to be planning.

A becket is usually provided to be able to terminate a purchase. Like so:

https://forum.daysailer.org/gallery/image.php?image_id=2942

Here the "buntline hitch" is tied around the becket of the upper block.

In the picture, the lower block also has a becket, but it is unused. (I recently noticed that it has disappeared).

Given that, I'm a bit of a loss as to understanding what you are planning to use a becket for in this particular application.

I'm responding to try to clear up the confusion. I was intrigued by the discussion on this thread between Woreign and SpeckledTrout, especially Woreign's suggestion to attach the block directly to the OEM jib car putting the becket through the clevis pin, which worked well for Woreign, albeit just the rachet block, no cam cleat. I'm in touch with Ronstan to double check that the configuration will work. I can't quite picture it ... even with my paper model made by gluing an image of the block to its mirror and cutting out the wheel so it rotates around the wire axle I stuck through. Here are links to photos of the port side jib set up back in 2020 before the track pulled out.
https://forum.daysailer.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=282&image_id=3210&sk=t&sd=d&st=0
https://forum.daysailer.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=1&image_id=3023

I'm planning to go with the 40 series because Stonington/Fisher's Island Sound has pretty moderate winds, but am open to considering the 55.

As always, comments welcome.

[GreenLake]

The 40mm are probably fine. I'm using a 55mm ratchet block for the mainsheet and there seemed to be good reason to have all three the same size (or the local store was out of the 40mm that day). It looks a little bit large for the jib. (But I'm using ratchet blocks, and not blocks with builtin cleats, so there are different considerations)

Using the becket to attach the block is usually not what it's intended for. However, I see that in the block you cite, the becket is a U shaped bail. That would probably work better than the becket design in the image I shared.

One point to consider is that the becket changes the direction of the whole arrangement. Which way around will work for your cleat? I agree that for the purpose in question, you don't need the swivel function, in fact, it might give your blocks unwanted flexibility in position.

It isn't clear from the picture whether the cleats can be removed and or repositioned with the screw that is shown in the photo you linked. If you can flip sides and/or orientation of the cleats freely then using the becket may work with the existing car. The orientation of the pin on that care is horizontal fore-aft and that would allow the the whole fairlead+cleat to swing from hanging down to pointing inboard as you pull on the jib sheet. Which is what you want.

However, ideally the cleat would be on the opposite end of the becket, so that you can operate the jib sheet from across the boat. You don't want to have to pull fully backwards (parallel to the track) to set or release it. The question remains whether to set up the cleat so it works with a (shallow angle) pull backwards to release it from across the cockpit (by someone sitting on the windward side). You definitely don't want to set it up for a forward pull to release, because then you can't operate the jib sheet if you are single handed or for any reason need to assist your crew from the helm position.

Does any of that make sense? However, I note that the site lists this item as out of stock. Did you find any reseller that still has some in stock?