Daysailer I number 63

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS1. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

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Daysailer I number 63

Postby SVFayaway » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:08 pm

Hello all! After lurking and reading for quite a while I have finally found my own Daysailer I. It looks like she’s hull number 63 and she has the wooden seats and molded planking on the deck. She’s suffered some fiberglass damage and badly needs updating but she’s complete and on a titled trailer. I plan to spend a year or two updating and sailing her before I try my hand at racing with fleet one in Annapolis. I may also try the Everglades Challenge. I’ve been sailing keel boats for about ten years and am currently cruising the Bahamas on my Cape Dory 28 which I refit myself, including new rigging and engine and a lot of fiberglass repair. So I’m well acquainted with the travails of boat ownership, although relearning dinghy sailing will be an adventure! My last real experience with small boats was in college when I briefly sailed FJs and 420s. Looking forward to sharing the restoration process with everyone here and learning as much as I can about sailing my new boat!
-Avery

Daysailer #63 "Miss Bliss"
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby ttexpatriate » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:09 am

Welcome, lots of information here, browse the threads and post questions. Take pics!
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:55 pm

Welcome to the forum! Looks like this is not your first rodeo, so good luck.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby SVFayaway » Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:09 pm

Thanks for the welcome! I brought the old girl home on Friday. Apparently the fiberglass damage resulted from the previous owner running the boat into a bridge while towing her from his dock to the boat ramp. The mast is bent a little at the deck level, unsurprisingly. Any thoughts on whether I could straighten it? If she needs a new mast, so be it, but I'd rather go sailing this year and get some experience before I go investing a lot in new rigging. I'm sure I'll want to make some changes once I get to know the boat. I definitely need to replace the forestay chainplate and the standing rigging.
-Avery

Daysailer #63 "Miss Bliss"
SVFayaway
 
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:42 pm

If the bend is "small" it's possible to bend it back, but the trick is to not overdo it.

I bent mine back after a mishap and wrote about it here. If you can locate the post, it may have more detail because I wrote it when things were still fresh in memory.

However, the main technique was locating the bend, supporting it with something firm, but not hard (I used an old tire with something inside to keep it from collapsing). I then fixed the long end of the mast with a weight (bag of sand or similar).

Then I stepped gently on the short piece and moved my weight back. When that did not result in a change, I picked up some weights until I could just feel movement. After that, I proceeded very gently and removed (almost all) of the bend in small increments. (You may need to reposition your support if your mast starts bending in the wrong place - you don't want an S. The bend you have may be shallow, that also may need the reverse bend applied across a range of positions).

If it's a sideways bent, the stays will be able to keep the mast aligned, even with a small bend: one of them will be a bit tighter then the other, but that's not a huge problem. So you don't have to be absolutely perfect.

A fore-aft bend would be trickier, because the mast profile is stiffer in that direction. You might need quite a bit more force, but the same principle of applying it slowly does apply.

If all fails, you can cut the mast at/above the bend and add a tabernacle. You can purchase a short length of mast section to replace the lower portion with something that is straight, but you can also change that portion to a compression post that doesn't use any mast profile, or you can cut out the bend and make up for the missing piece with a bit of a pedestal at the bottom end in the cuddy. There are many options that will work.

The only reason not to get a tabernacle would be if you keep the boat on a mooring. They have a way or working loose when unattended.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby SVFayaway » Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:13 pm

Thanks for that, GreenLake. I like the idea of a tabernacle, since I will be trailering the boat exclusively for the time being. I'll try bending the mast back first and see where that gets me. Trying (my very hardest) to do the minimum to get the boat sailing. Not really in my nature to leave well enough alone though...
-Avery

Daysailer #63 "Miss Bliss"
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:25 am

If the mast can be straightened successfully, look into the description of the mast raising contraption for full-length keel-stepped mast that some PO installed on my boat. It gets you most of a the benefits of a tabernacle without changing the sailing characteristics of the mast.

[ur=https://forum.daysailer.org/greenlake/daysailer/MastRaising.htmll]Rasing a keel-stepped mast[/url]

The document contains two ideas. The "hinged sleeve" that works like a tabernacle, but lets the mast slide down after it's vertical, and a tripod, that can be used to further control the mast. I use the former daily (well, for every sailing day), but have developed the strength to control the mast w/o needing a tripod, so I don't. I keep the tripod around in case I need it (injury, out of shape).

However, it would work well for anyone doing this single handed who does not have the strength or reach to keep the mast vertical before lowering it into the partners, or while raising it back to deck level.

With a helper so one person can be in the cockpit and one on deck, there's no need for a tripod.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby SVFayaway » Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:15 pm

That's a nice system GreenLake. Even if I go the tabernacle route for this mast, the idea is I'll someday be racing the boat and I'm sure I'll eventually replace the mast and find myself in need of just such a system. I'm fairly strong, but I'm not exactly a tall guy so stepping the mast alone may not be easy for me. In what way does the tabernacle change the sailing characteristics of the mast? That wasn't something I knew to worry about.
-Avery

Daysailer #63 "Miss Bliss"
SVFayaway
 
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:45 am

If you are not tall, the version with the tripod will work for you, single-handing and without a helper. Without a helper, perhaps something solid to stand on at seat level is enough.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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What makes a keel-stepped mast different?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:52 am

Think of the mast like a bow, with the stays taking the role of the string. A keel-stepped mast can bend across its entire length (well from the hounds to the bottom). And the deck opening (partners) aids in setting up the original, non-loaded bend, which is called pre-bend, by pushing forward where mast step and stays together pull back.

A bend in the mast, will pull the luff forward, flattening the sail. You can increase that underway, by tightening the main sheet or even more so by tightening the vang. I've not seen the effect side-by-side, but in racing, where every little bit matters, a deck stepped mast is a handicap, I'm told.

If your bend is beyond fixing, then a tabernacle is a good solution to rescue the mast. But you do yourself a favor, in terms of sailing your boat, if you can retain a keel-stepped mast (and learn how to set up and use the pre-bend - I won't repeat all of that here).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby SVFayaway » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:21 am

Thanks for that explanation. Pre-bend is something I know little about. I have a lot of sailing experience but almost exclusively on old full keel boats where I've never seen a need for pre-bend in the past. This will be a good learning experience for me as I am planning on building a much more performance oriented boat to replace my Cape Dory-part of the impetus for setting up the Daysailer for racing. I think my Cape Dory will also benefit from my improved understanding, particularly when using the autopilot or windvane when balancing the boat and reducing heel is crucial.
-Avery

Daysailer #63 "Miss Bliss"
SVFayaway
 
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Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:48 am

One of the fun things about sailing is that the learning curve never completely flattens out. Even if you don't switch boat types for new challeges, you can always advance your skills in setting and adjusting sails, in optimizing your rigging and learning more deeply how everything works together. That goes along not only with a better "feel" for your boat, but also better "eyes", so you can look at a sail and not only tell that it's roughly OK for the point of sail and wind conditions, but to be able to see and understand what finer adjustments are necessary and what they will contribute.

I'm always amazed how much more alive a boat becomes when you've made some tiny adjustment that was missing to make the sail trim perfect.

I think it's really rewarding to push yourself towards a better understanding and better execution. I have no illusions that I'm ever going to be able to match the leaders of the fleet, but nevertheless, I like the feeling that my personal best is improving. Not just in racing round the buoys, but also in managing the challenges of a longer daysail. In that spirit, good luck with all of that.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby SVFayaway » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:08 am

Totally agree. The amount I learned on my Bahamas cruise is unreal, and I still feel like while I'm a competent cruising sailor, I am only scratching the surface of what there is to know about proper sail trim and rig tuning. And that after many years of sailing the same type of boat. I have a list of modifications to make to my Cape Dory's rig to try and improve performance (mostly related to mainsail shape and flattening the sail which I read a lot about on this forum) and make the boat more comfortable to sail. Really looking forward to trying out the new boat and seeing what I can learn from it. I've also found that dinghies punish and reward changes to sail and rig configuration in a way that keel boats don't. Not that those things don't matter on a big boat but on a dinghy the effects are immediate and obvious. Even just sailing my 8 foot pram in the Bahamas taught me a lot about how land effects wind velocity and direction, lessons I was able to apply when sailing the big boat. One design racing further amplifies the effect because you can compare your performance to other similar boats.

On to the next problem. The rub rail on this boat has deteriorated beyond repair. I was able to pull it off with my hands. It doesn't look like anything on the D&R marine website. I'll try and get a picture. Are there any known alternatives to the D&R products? I'm not opposed to spending the money on the rub rail system they sell eventually, but I'd like to get sailing sooner rather than later and my wife's patience with boat purchases has worn thin after preparing the big boat for my cruise this winter. I suspect the answer is, as always, just get the right thing but it can't hurt to ask.

I should probably show you all the boat at this point. Here she is on the day I picked her up from the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum, and in my driveway after I got her home. It's raining today but I'll get some more photos once it clears up. She needs paint (not sure what they were thinking with the gray gelcoat) but the seats, coamings etc. are in great shape. She has most of her original hardware except where a few bits have been replaced with what appears to galvanized steel (ugh). She is old enough to have been built without a motor well but someone added one and did a crap job of it so that's on the list for replacement.

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-Avery

Daysailer #63 "Miss Bliss"
SVFayaway
 
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Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:14 pm

Rubrails are not cheap. But they are amazingly sturdy. I recently had a keelboat bang into my stern quarter and you can't see a thing at the point of impact on the rubrail, even though the rudder broke from the boat being pushed sideways.

The original design uses some PVC structure over which the actual rail part is placed. I've never seen the inside, so I can't tell you whether it's continuous or discrete clips or whatever.

On a DS1 the hull deck joint should end up as basically a flat strip of laminate. So anything that works to cap this (and is strong enough for the job) should be a candidate. It might be that what DR Marine has on offer is your best bet - but I haven't researched this.

If it's a matter of "financing" the purchase, it may be something that you can put off for a season or two.

PS: is your hull-deck joint damaged? or do you think it's that internal structure that has given out?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer I number 63

Postby GreenLake » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:33 pm

Just looked up the website. Looks like the rigid underrail comes in 7' sections. If your issue is at the stern or near the transom, you may be able to open from the back, and perhaps do a replacement of a small section. But I've never worked with this and don't know what issues you'd encounter.

The RR may also have become too stiff to be worked with. Mine is really stiff, but otherwise still strong, hence no experience yet in replacing it.

I poked around a bit on other sites, but I don't see anything comparable to what the DS 1 uses.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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