Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Moderator: GreenLake

Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby GreenLake » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:22 am

@Lil Maggie asked in another thread:
The next question is how to best recover a capsized Daysailer without wrecking it in the process?


I think this is an excellent question, to which I would love to have an answer in case it's ever needed.

What (precisely) have people tried and what worked or didn't?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby Lil Maggie » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:34 pm

So, how does one recover a swamped/capsized/turtled DS1?

All I can say from my experience is: the quicker the recovery, the easier it will be. A good 20 minutes and a full turtle-over was the time it took before a bystander on his boat tossed a line to me, the only place that I could fix it to was the shroud near the base where it attaches to the chainplate, being that it was a regular poly tow rope with a handle, I just passed it around and held on to the handle with the help of my 230 pounds...on the first attempt, the rescuer was not directly perpendicular to my boat when he initiated the pull and all it did was crack the hull-deck joint beyond the rub rail. That damage created enough separation to create the damage from the second (and successful) attempt at righting my boat, however, it tore a crack on my hull about 6 inches behind the starboard chainplate and about 9 inches long (it nearly ripped the boat in half!). The reason I can best reckon that happened is that my rescuer overcompensated on his alignment and his application of horsepower on his second attempt.

Has that sort of damage ever happened to any DS1 during recovery from capsizing?
I am getting to the picture part...

Ther has got to be a better way...spinnaker halyard, maybe? It would need some kind of pivot arm or compression post to get it started, though...

Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
DS 1 #2313
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby Lil Maggie » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:58 pm

here are a couple of pictures of the damage to my boat during a capsize recovery:
2548
2547

Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
DS 1 #2313
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby GreenLake » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:05 am

Ouch!

On reading this, and looking at the photos, it's clear that he chainplates aren't strong points when loaded perpendicular. Which is perhaps not surprising. It means, though that the DS lacks a good strong point for recovery.

Two questions.

One: what about first trying to bring the mast to the surface? Might mean diving for a halyard, but the lever arm is so much better that you might not need power (just a floating platform from where to pull).

Two: if the mast base is accessible/can be reached, why not a loop around it? The mast base is often recommended as a strong point for small boats, for example in towing.

I read in someone's description of their recovery that they did not tie the tow line but just held it, so they could let go or let it slip as needed.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby Lil Maggie » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:13 pm

GL,
My mast was on the surface, however, if I left where I was, which was standing on my CB, the boat would have turtled over (again...I did manage that on my own)...remember that time was of the essence and valuable time was spent making sure my 8yr old was safe.
Also, I was holding the tow rope with my hand, and I did let go on the first attempt, after which the strength of my "recovery point" was already compromised.

I, like you also had cork plugs on my bench seats...they don't work for beans....
M
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
DS 1 #2313
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby GreenLake » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:22 pm

What did you do to get the mast to come up? Stand on the lower rubrail and hang from the CB? Or did you use a line?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby Lil Maggie » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:11 pm

I climbed on the turtled bottom of my boat, grabbed the CB and hung all my weight on it to one side until it came back onto its side; unfortunately with the port flotation tank completely flooded (despite being crammed full of pool noodles). The bow was awash and 75% of the stern was under when we attempted to right her...
M
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
DS 1 #2313
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby BananaCollision » Thu May 09, 2019 1:23 am

I turtled a couple weeks ago and righted myself alone (180-ish lbs) with no damage.

The boat came to rest stably with the port chainplate just out of the water, starboard chainplate underwater.

Steps I did:
1) Pulled the centerboard back out of the trunk as it had fallen down. This was difficult and annoying.

2) Tried to hang off the end of the centerboard but it wasn't doing anything.

3) Tied a righting line around the port chainplate. This was easy because my utility line was floating away right past my feet. Since I seem to be making a habit of capsizing, I think I will keep a righting line tied to each chainplate and wrapped around the shroud out of the way as a permanent fixture.

4) Walked to the starboard side and hiked out as far as I could while hanging on the righting line like a trapeze. I was basically standing sideways on the mostly vertical side of the hull.

5) The boat slooowly slooowly rolled back upright. It felt like forever, probably 45 seconds. When it got far enough over I walked out to the end of the centerboard and stopped hiking.

6) When the boat was mostly horizontal, it stopped rolling with the mast just underwater and didn't want to come up anymore. I had to stand on the absolute end of the centerboard, hike way out with my righting line again, and cycle through every curse word I know waiting for the mast to come up. Finally it did come up the last couple inches out of the water, then the boat rolled right upright.

I noticed later that, of the four little bolts holding my thwarts to the centerboard trunk, one was gone and two had fallen almost completely out of their holes. Apparently the nuts had spun loose under the thwarts and I hadn't noticed. This matters because the thwarts reinforce the CB trunk. If they came loose then standing on the centerboard might torque the CB trunk too hard and crack it where it joins the hull. Check that you've still got your nuts!
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 09, 2019 4:19 am

Thwarts would be specific to an original DS1 - but they can also come loose on the seat side. Worth keeping an eye on.
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby TJDSII6630 » Fri May 10, 2019 9:43 pm

A few questions:
How much buoyancy is needed to keep the mast on the surface?
What about the suggestion I read some where about putting a pool
Noodle in the mast?
I trimmed one down and put about a 3 foot piece in.

How about tying a bumper to the head board when you raise the main?
I have one rigged to secure to the head board and the slug bolt just below the bumper.
The two times I wished I had it up there I had forgotten to install it.
Have not capsized yet but have taken water over the rail a few times.
Teddy
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby Alan » Sat May 11, 2019 12:04 pm

My mast (Dwyer DM284) had foam similar to pool noodle foam in it when I got the boat. As nearly as I can tell, it runs the whole length of the mast.

Somebody makes a triangular inflatable cover that goes over the head of the mainsail (actually, I think I own one - if I can find it I'll post a photo). Hobie makes teardrop-shaped floats that go on top of the mast, in two sizes.
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby GreenLake » Sat May 11, 2019 4:29 pm

The top of the mast represents a 20' + lever. On land, it takes about 30# to balance the weight of the hull pivoting on the rubrail.

Probably takes much less than that to discourage the boat from turtling. I'm not sure whether anyone's ever posted a definite answer of how much is required.

I suspect that the Hobie floats are more than would be needed, because the geometry of a cat floating on one ama is different from a boat hull floating with its centerline close to the water. That said, people have tied empty, sealed plastic bottles to the top of their masts.
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby jalmeida51 » Sat May 11, 2019 8:13 pm

I put pool noodles in the full length of my mast. It was a Dwyer 284 mast. I think I used about 7 noodles. I check the floatation under the seats and forward tank to check for water saturation. The blocks were dry. Put in an additional 50 pool noodles in these places. I was surprised how little floatation was in the forward tank. About 30 noodles filled it up. The only thing to do now is Don't Capsize.
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby GreenLake » Sun May 12, 2019 4:10 pm

I can't help thinking that foam in the lower mast primarily contributes by keeping water out, so that once the mast breaks the surface, you con't have to wait for it to drain. Because of the reduced lever arm, I would seem that any flotation in the lower part of the mast would contribute substantially less to preventing the boat from turtling.
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Re: Best way to recover a capsized DS?

Postby jalmeida51 » Sun May 12, 2019 5:45 pm

I agree with GreenLake about putting pool noodles in the lower part of the mast. It might keep some water out of the lower end of the mast. I figured it wouldn't hurt. Pool noodles are cheap. Putting pool noodles in the lower end probably will not help to prevent turtling. To be honest I have no idea how many pool noodles it takes to prevent turtling.
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