Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

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Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby amedsker » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:41 am

Hi all! I picked up my DS1 a few days ago and I'm excited to start cleaning it up and get to sailing. I have a few questions. It appears to be a DS1 but the ID plate is missing and there are no numbers on the sails. I did see on the main is says Howe & Bainbridge. Does that provide any identification for the year of my boat? I purchased the boat in Kansas and they don't require a title. In order for me to title it in Missouri all I need is a bill of sale that includes the year, make, and HIN. I'm trying to get the most recent registration from the previous owner, which will hopefully have that information. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on what to put for the year and HIN if I can't get the previous registration? I'm assuming this boat was made before HINs were put on boats, so I'm not sure what information I can provide in order to get the title.

The pictures are all from the previous owner. They haven't sailed it in about three years. They did say there are no leaks or issues that they are aware of and that it should be ready to sail right now (I did find that there are no battens for the sail). I'll try to add some new picutres when I get a chance.

Overall I think the boat is in pretty good condition. I don't see any cracks or issues with the fiberglass. The mainsail appears to be in decent condition. I don't see any rips or tears but it is a little dirty and has clearly been used. It doesn't have a crisp feel but I wouldn't say it's soft either. It came with two jibs. One of them does have a few small rips and is pretty worn but the other one (it's just a little larger) is really nice and is very crisp. It looks like it is not original with the boat and was made by Potomac Sailmakers. The only thing that looks like it really needs to be done is repainting the cuddy and the interior. Does anyone have suggestions on what paint to use? I guess I don't even know if I'm supposed to use paint or something else.

Thanks in advance!
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amedsker
 
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby amedsker » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am

Here's another picture from the previous owner
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:03 am

Congratulations on your new boat!

Some states will issue you a HIN for boats that do not have one.

If you DS predates the modern HIN, the only numbers associated with it may have been on a small plaque, originally riveted to the wooden coaming on the transom. Later, that was moved to the bulkhead in the cuddy.

I made a set of battens once from paint stir sticks (the 5 gal size). I had to glue two together to get the right dimensions, and coated them in epoxy and polyurethane varnish. They worked fine as long as I used the original main.

Eventually, I learned enough about sailing to be able to tell that the jib was past its prime: despite there being no damage, it simply didn't want to set properly. The fabric had stretched to the point where it was no longer holding shape. I got a new set of sails (with a set of reef points that time) and boy did I appreciate the improvement.

Those sails wore out, over time, and for some reasons it was the jib again that gave the more obvious "signal": the fabric was still rather stiff, and the only damage was a split in the collision window - something that clear Gorilla tape more than adequately took care of.

Sails are a consumable, like tires or brake pads on a car, they have only so many miles in them. Although they degrade not linearly and even blown out sails will still move your boat. Only going out on a few test sails will tell you the real condition. The same goes for the running and standing rigging as well as rudder and centerboard.

One thing that your boat is missing is the set of wooden thwarts that on most DS1s connect the seats to the CB trunk. Your seats lack the little indent that these wooden boards would normally rest in. Instead, there seems to be an attempt to stabilize the CB trunk with a set of "buttresses". Could this mean that your boat is one of the oldest with fiberglass seats?

In any event, if O'Day tried this and gave up on it later, it would mean that they discovered it wasn't as strong. You should therefore check the place where CB trunk and hull meet very carefully for any sign of cracking. That means taking out the wooden floor boards, but also checking under the boat.

You may find that your CB gasket needs replacing. That's a rubber or neoprene part that will eventually look like this:


1042

Does your cuddy still sport the original O'Day logo? It seems so.

Your mast still sports the original jumper struts and diamond stays in its upper part. The general opinion is that those are not actually needed. I left mine on for many years, but eventually took them off and can't say it made a difference.

However, if you have the original 3/32" standing rigging (shrouds and forestay) you may want to upgrade that to 1/8". A good source for all DS-specific parts is D&R Marine (also for CB gaskets). Just be sure to tell them that you have a keel-stepped mast with a mast jack. It's always a good idea to replace standing rigging after some years (decades in this case) and the general consensus is that the 3/32" may have been underdimensioned.

I eventually replaced mine when they failed - not due to fatigue, but due to operator error.
If you sail on lakes only, at least you avoid salt-water corrosion . . .

The older posts here are full of all sorts of other ideas of what you can do to your boat, so all I can say is go read.

Anyway, let us know how your maiden voyage goes (and all the thing that broke - on mine, we ripped out a jib track ...)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby amedsker » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:30 am

Yes, I have the original O'Day logo on the cuddy. Any suggestions on what to do with the interior? It's difficult to tell in the pictures but the paint is all peeling off.
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:25 pm

You are right, I don't see any peeling paint.

I assume the blue is gelcoat, but the gray may be paint?

A good wash and some light sanding for the painted areas (make sure you use a strong soap to degrease). After which, you'll face the question of what paint. A bilge paint might be appropriate as you will have standing water collect in there and not all paints can handle immersion. Or you could apply clear gelcoat - has to be the kind that cures in air. I did that under my floor boards, just spread it on. Above the floor boars you have a broader choice of paints, including those sold as "topside". They'll handle water as long as it's not constant immersion. My current favorite is EasyPoxy from Pettit. (No epoxy in the paint, despite the name). Easy to apply. Takes a few days to fully cure, but is pretty tough after that. For the inside, you should use a non-glossy paint, which is more forgiving in prep and application.

The blue gelcoat, if that has become chalky, you could use a rubbing compound on it, followed by something to restore a bit of shine. 3M Rubbing compound followed by 3M Finesse It. After that, you could lightly wax those areas or use an acrylic product (similar chemistry to Moe&Glo). Not sure about brand names, "NuGlass"? Those give a nice glossy appearance and wear longer than waxes. (Be careful with wax on any surface where you need friction to sit/stand on).

For other users' advice, read the existing posts here. This has been discussed before.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:33 pm

I see that you were inquiring about a tabernacle. Hope that doesn't mean you are going to cut your mast.

Using a keel-stepped mast is not that bad. Here's a recent discussion.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby amedsker » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:00 pm

I've read that it's a lot easier to step the mast solo with a tabernacle. I'm not sure how much help I'll be getting when I go sailing, which is why I asked about it. If I can step the mast solo without a tabernacle than I'm certainly open to doing that. But again, I'm fairly new to sailing, so I'm sure there are a lot of ways to do things like step a mast that I'm just not familiar with.
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:00 pm

With the device that I describe, I've been singlehanding easily. Even when I have a helper, it's only to help get the mast in position horizontally.

It's easy to build and acts like a virtual tabernacle. Take your time and read the discussions that are linked.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby tomodda » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:10 pm

Welcome to Sailing and more specifically DaySailering! Your boat looks to be in great condition, just needs some cleaning and maybe a bit of paint. Two suggestions:

1) If you are going to trailer the boat any longer distances (over 1/2 hour or so), then repack your bearings sooner rather than later. That trailer looks a bit "worn" and gawd only knows when the bearings were last checked. You don't want to be stuck by the side of the road with 600lbs of boat sitting on a burnt-out hub! I wrote a quick how-to down below.

2) Your jib sheets... going thru a fixed block then the cleats to leeward can be dangerous. Why? Cuz you''ll cleat down the sheet and it will be over on the other side of the boat when you may need to uncleat them in a hurry fast. As in, when you are caught in a hard gust and about to capsize. Check the various discussions on this board about ratchet blocks, Greenlake converted a lot of folks including me to ratchet blocks for the jib. With ratchet blocks, you can hand-hold the jib sheet easily. And most ppl then cleat at the centerboard, if they cleat at all.

GL already mentioned your lack of centerboard thwarts. Certainly something to keep an eye on!

Fair winds,

Tom

----------------
How to repack trailer bearings:

...Apologies if I'm preaching to the choir here. If you've done car or motorcycle work, this is "old hat."

-Jack up the trailer, put blocks under the frame (trailer jacks, cinder blocks, 8x8''s, whatever is sturdy). Take the wheels off. Helps if you loosen the nuts half a turn before you jack up the trailer! How are those tires looking? Inspect, replace as needed.

-Knock the Bearing Buddy covers off (those look like Bearing Buddy's in your photos). You need to do it with a good mallet, you walk them off the hubs by knocking on alternate sides, see youtube on how. Bang 'em HARD and be patient. A 3lb Deadblow mallet is the best for this. It's kind of like taking a stuck cork off a bottle.

-Unscrew the crown nut, you'll have to remove the cotter pin first. Next take the entire hub off the spindle and haul it over to your workbench. Scoop out the old grease till you get to the conical bearing, take that out, scoop out the rest of the grease.

-Clean everything, get the old grease off as best possible. Plenty of paper towels (about an entire roll), and either kerosene (less corrosive, takes longer) or spray-on brake cleaner fluid (try not to breathe it in, dont get it on your skin, but works fast). Clean the spindle too (the part that the hub sat on)

-Visually inspect for any issues - This is the most important part, you want peace of mind. Are there any gouges on the internal surfaces where the bearing sits? If yes, that's a bad sign, at least replace the conical bearing. Is there a lot of grit in the old grease? Bad news, see if you can figure out what broke in there. Is there any purplish discoloration to the metal on the bearing? That means that it overheated at some point, replace it. How does the back bearing look? It's a flat bearing, sealed in by a set of rings. I usually dont take it out, but I want to make sure it's spinning well and no discolorations or weird noises as it spins. Youtube on how to get it out, if you need to.

-If all is well, then grease the spindle, pack grease by hand onto the back of the hub, put hub back on spindle, pack in some more grease, grease the conical bearing (look on youtube how to do that properly), put the conical bearing back in, more grease, put the flat washer onto the conical bearing, with the groove facing INWARDS, bit more grease, castle nut, tighten it properly (youtube again, there's a trick to how much to tighten it), more grease. You can pack all this grease in with your fingers and hands.

-Put the Bearing Buddy back over the hub, put a small wood plank/offcut over the face of the Buddy (to spread the load) and then hammer it home. You should have packed in enough grease that a little but will get pushed out of the Buddy-to-hub seal when you hammer it home.

-Wheels back on, tighten lug nuts, trailer back down to ground, done!

Some notes: You can get everything you need either online (etrailer.com) or at local autoparts store. I like O'Reilly's. You'll probably want to get new cotter pins, $3 for a set and saves you some frustration. Wear latex gloves, and old clothes, you will get filthy! Sugar gets grease off your skin. Put old newspaper down on the ground while you are taking apart/putting together the hub, that way anything that falls wont get crud in it. Use MARINE grease, marked "for boat trailers", not regular car grease. You can figure it all out from google/youtube and common sense. In theory, instead of packing the grease in with your fingers, you should use a grease gun and push it in via the Zerk fitting (yup, that's what it's called!). IMHO, not worth the bother, but if you know someone with a grease gun..... And again, you can get anything, even a new axle, online and relatively cheap. Peace of mind while trailering is everything, so if it looks suspicious, replace it! Check the trailer wiring while you're at it :)
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:52 pm

Absolutely second Tom here on the trailer maintenance.

I knew nothing about trailers when I got my boat, and before the end of the first season I had a hub freeze on me. Luckily it was less than 1/4 mile from my house and after laying down a terrifying streak of rubber, the bearing collapsed fully which allowed the wheel to turn again and me to get the trailer home.

I discovered all the steps that Tom mentioned by myself, including the bearing buddies, except, those were something I added after I replaced inner and outer bearings.

I also offloaded the boat and took apart the trailer to grind off all rust and to repaint it (and to build longer and much wider bunks to better distribute the weight). Depending on where you use the trailer (inland or coast) that's something you may need to do every decade or so.

Also a good occasion to check trailer tongue and frame members (and springs) for any signs of weakness (or more than surface corrosion). I was with a former forum member when the trailer tongue gave out just after retrieving his boat on a beach several hours drive away from home. Luckily then, and not on the road, and he had a friend nearby so with a jury rig we could move the trailer and leave it there. Just the kind of fun you don't need.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby amedsker » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:53 am

I was able to take a closer look at the inside of the boat and I can definitely say that the paint is peeling off pretty much everywhere. Also, the previous owner found the ID plate so now I know it’s hull #5665 class #920.
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:06 pm

There's a thread in the History section where you can "register" your ownership, if you feel like it. While we are waiting for someone to step up to consolidate the data, you can just post yours at the end of the thread.

States are getting more strict about hull numbers being attached to the boat. A good location may be the forward bulkhead in the cuddy. You should be able to rivet it in place with simple pop rivets.

About the paint: you say it is peeling "everywhere" on the inside. Does that mean that all surfaces, including seats were painted byrather than being the original gel coat? Or did you just mean all the surfaces that aren't blue?

Have you decided how to go about this?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby amedsker » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:56 pm

The paint is peeling on all surfaces that aren’t blue. Everything that’s blue just has minor surface cracks and I don’t think I need to do anything with it currently. Everything else is either mostly peeled off or completely peeled off. I removed the floorboards and I can see several spots on the floor where there is nothing covering the fiberglass. I’m going to give the inside a good cleaning then try to figure out what to do with it. I’m guess I’ll need to sand down the rest of what’s not peeled off and re paint or seal it but I’m not sure what to use.
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby GreenLake » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:28 pm

What you describe would be typical. Gelcoat is normally only applied to the inside of the mold, before the layup. On your DS1, what you see in gray is the layup side and I think those were always delivered painted.

Before sanding you should give this area a good wash with a strong soap (to remove any grease that otherwise might get ground into the sanding grooves).

After that you are right, you need to sand off the loose paint. Use low-grit paper to leave a good "key". When done, you may have exposed some bare fiberglass in a few spots in addition to those that are rubbed bare from the boards. But I don't think it should be necessary to go to bare fiberglass everywhere.

I suggest you coat the bare spots (and perhaps the entire low-lying area) with clear gelcoat. Something like this: https://www.fisheriessupply.com/evercoat-polyester-gel-paste-100695. This particular formulation is transparent and cures even if exposed to air. You mix a bit of it with the catalyst, stir well, and then simply spread it on with a plastic spreader. Unlike paint, you can let it build up a bit, particularly at the places your floorboards sit.

It will help seal the laminate and make a good foundation if you you want to paint it over.

Because it is clear, wherever the surface you exposed by sanding is uniform in appearance, the result may look quite acceptable, and if you wanted, you could stop right there. Judging from my boat, which is only a year or two younger than yours, I'd expect that most of the problem areas would be covered by the floor boards and therefore not visible; but if not, you could let the gel coat cure, give it a light sanding, and then paint on top of it.

For areas that are not covered by the floor boards (and that usually don't collect standing water) you could use EZPoxy TopSide paint. It's easy to apply, looks good but takes a few days to fully cure. After that, it's quite tough, and I'd expect it to stand up to contact with gear and feet in the cockpit and cuddy.

Or you could simply do the entire space in a bilge paint (still after sealing exposed fiberglass). Here's an example of a bilge paint. Looks like it's cheaper than the deck paint, so you might want to go for it.

Now, if you had some lying around, you could also use epoxy to seal exposed laminate, but unlike the gel coat it absolutely needs to be painted (to protect it from UV), and that protection better be durable. Hence the suggestion to use the GelCoat instead.

I have used the EZPoxy and also have used the Evercoat. Both have stood up well for many seasons.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Take a look at my new DS1 (and maybe offer some advice)

Postby tomodda » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:33 pm

@amedsker,

Let me save you some sanding (I hope). Go to the orange bog-box store and buy a quart of Citri-Strip paint remover, $12. You brush it on (it's a gel), leave it for 1hr to 8hrs, then scoop up the resulting glop with a scraper, plastic is fine. Works great and is not caustic like regular paint remover. Wont harm the firberglass or you. You'll start seeing the paint bubble up immediately, you can start scraping in an hour, but really best to leave ti for 4ish. Caution, after 8 hours, it dries and the paint gets stuck back on the surface, so don't wait too long.

That's it! I think 1 quart will do you and saves a LOT of sanding in enclosed spaces. Speaking of which, if you are sanding under the cuddy, please wear a decent mask... One with removable filters, not the paper ones. Apologies for preaching, but save your lungs and sinuses.

Clean, clean, clean your bilges before painting. I like TSP (also from the big box store), it's a powder/detergent. Mix it with water and scrub away. Note: It can irritate the skin, you may want to wear gloves. I don't, but I'm already irritating anyways.....

As for bilge paint, imho Rustoleum topside is fine, if you're not going to keep it wet for days on end. A quart will do you. I used Petit Easypoxy on my DS1 and loved it, but I was gifted a pint. I used the Rustoleum topsides for other odd boat bits (rudder cheeks, etc) on past boats, always been happy with it.

Cheers,

Tom
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