Woodie - DS1 project

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Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:41 pm

I've got an old DS1 - call her Woodie. She is ancient. One of the ones from the 50's with wooden seats. I bought her a couple years ago.

I'd like to write this up as I don't think anyone in our little sailing club thinks I can pull this off. They have good reason, I've owned this relic for a couple years and it is so bad that she ended up in our club's boneyard with all the abandoned trailers and broken boats. I bought her with every intention to fix her up for club racing and even sailed her once, it wan't pretty. I was offered a beautiful SLI Daysailer and couldn't refuse so I bought it and "Woodie" got ignored.

Nationals is going to be in Eugene this year. I'm going to offer my SLI Daysailer to a visiting skipper and use "Woodie". This means I need to make this old relic into a National's level boat.

Here are the design parameters. I feel the old DS1's from the 50's, the ones with the wooden seats, are a good boat but have a few problems. The first one is that you can't self rescue. They have so little reserve in the buoyancy tanks that they barely float when swamped. "Woodie" is going to be a gentleman's racer, simple, fast and safe. To do this I have to modify her so she has the safety features of a SLI Daysailer but retain the charm of an older Daysailer.

First job, repair the trailer, and repack the bearings so I can roll her around. I need to figure out how to add pictures, more later.
Last edited by lemsteraak on Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:40 pm

I believe all this will be class legal. After all it is just a copy of an existing class legal boat. If you have any ideas or thoughts, let me know, I'm new at this. The goal is to make a national's level racing boat that will also be good for open water daysailing.

Here we go, first trailer work, bearings are really crunchy and there is a lot of rust here.

Image

This is what I want to replicate - the interior of a SLI Daysailer similar to the new DS1's

Image

Newer DS1's have a lot of flotation, if you flip the boat, they don't really swamp, you only get a couple inches of water inside. The self bailer takes care of that quickly.

First task, create a bulkhead so water can't get in the cuddy. Layout work - I've already stripped, cleaned, sanded and painted the inside, it was painted black. The interior of an old DS1 just fills up with water so even if you can right the boat, there is no way you can bail it all out. The water just flows back in over the topsides. This is probably why the early DS1's had a really tall combing around the cockpit.

Image

Testing a laminated stringer to use as a cleat for the bulkhead's foundation. My thought is to strip plank the bulkhead using a method similar to how a wood canoe is made. This fits the hull, now I need to cut a rabbit so I can let in the planks but this will have to wait for the weather to warm. It needs to be tabbed to the hull with epoxy. This should stiffen the hull a bit. I've seen some racing boats with a lot of cross bracing here.

Image
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:48 pm

First, you need to read the class bylaws (on the main DSA site) to know precisely what is legal or not. You or I may think we know what's in there, but, trust me, there's always some minor detail that's oddly specific.

That said, adding a bulkhead should be fine (from my recollection). Changing the seats from wooden to something else may not be. However, you can strap buoyancy bladders under the seats for additional flotation. They should be readily available as they are used in boats like the Opti, etc.. That would cut down the level of modification you need to do to make your boat float higher in the water.

The bulkhead will stiffen your boat, so it has an additional advantage which makes that part of the project worthwhile.
Trying to replicate the true double hull nature of the SLI, I would judge as overkill.

The stringer in your picture: I assume you plan on sealing with epoxy and then also glassing it in place?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:52 pm

GreenLake,

Thank you, I have read the class rules several times. It is great to have them online. It seem like the class gives some latitude, especially when it comes to safety like your buoyancy bag idea. An example, rule 5.5 reads "For DS class yachts manufactured with wooden seats, the original seats may be replaced with wood or fiberglass provided the original seating areas and dimensions are maintained." My plan is to make wood seats exactly the same dimensions as the originals with the difference that they will be big buoyancy tanks, again strip planked. I'm thinking of making the seat frames and then strip plank over using the shape as a mould. I'll then take them out, glass them on both sides, then fasten them in place.

Your point about "glassing" the laminated stringers in is well taken. I made them out of Alaskan Yellow Cedar, a very rot resistant wood, and plan to put down a layer or two of epoxy and glass fiber then bed down using a thickened epoxy to fasten the stringers in place. I'm leaning toward putting a layer of thin glass and epoxy over the stringers to seal out water. This is really wet area so I don't know whether to seal out the water or leave the wood unfinished to breathe.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:34 pm

Sealing the wood is probably best. Anything in contact with the hull will trap water so the "breathing" won't be as effective as you'd like.

I would make the covering layer of laminate somewhat substantial (3-4 layers); that would make a channel that has some strength of its own, even if your seal gets broken and the wood gets attacked. Another thing you can do is to get System Three Board Defense (or what the actual name is) it's a Borax based solution that you can use to coat your stringers (and soak the ends); it will help prohibit spores that were on the outside of the wood from growing. It's water based, so needs to dry a few days before you seal.

Also, think of how to best attache the bulkhead, so that you can avoid through-fasteners near the bottom of the hull, where they are likely to allow water ingress, no matter how careful you are.

The bulkhead presents a challenge in that you'd want it really light weight, with a clever closure that allows easy access to stuff needed all the time. Have a look in John Alesch's posts (@jeadstx). I sailed with him and really enjoyed both the storage on the outside of the hatch as well as the hinged top.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby tomodda » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:30 pm

As a "Woodie" sailor myself (Hull #37, 1958), I'm happy to see another old-timer being restored to life. Nationals, no less! It seems you have your heart set on a bulkhead, and certainly may help stiffen the hull right where it's most floppy - forward of the centerboard. Like GL, I'm also wondering how you are going to combine strength and light weight on a vertical surface. Going to be a fascinating project, thank you for documenting it for us.

With that being said, a contrarian thought - Dunnage Bags, Vinyl. Long skinny ones under the seats, Big ones up forward on each side of the mast. Build up some attachment points along the hull - patch of glass, wood, thickened epoxy, eyebolt. Blow em up with a $60 all-purpose car pump (the kind that runs off cigarette lighter and has hose adapters to blow up inflatable toys). Strap em in, done. Dunnage bags come in any size/dimension, are much cheaper than equivalent bags purpose built for boats, but are still waterproof and strong. You can buy them on eBay, for instance.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:03 pm

That is a brilliant idea to use dunnage bags! They are big and cheap. We used them in boxcars to limit damages so they are rugged. Perfect for added buoyancy in older DS1's

This bulkhead idea may not work but I'd like to give it a try. I just sanded the hull where the laminated cleat is going. It is pretty narrow so I want to lay up a couple layers of fiberglass on the hull to distribute the load. Fiberglass doesn't like point loading. Now if only the temps would rise a little so resin will cure.

Image

I''m laying up the deck beam and had to loft it up a couple times. The arc flattened out at the top and then I realized the builder encapsulated a 1/2" thick piece of wood to support the cleat at the top. So the builder did something similar on a small scale. I'm looking for a good source of WRC or Western Red Cedar so I'm going to try Port Orford cedar for this beam. It is a nice light wood.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:09 pm

Here is the deck beam lamination. It is way too thick, I plan to whittle it down. I want to run barber haulers inside so I'll have to cut out a bit to make room for the lines.

The lamination mould

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and the wood being laminated, the hull cleats are in the picture as I coated them with the left over epoxy

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Due to all the plys, if water get in, it can't go to far.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby tomodda » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:56 pm

Looking good! Two thoughts/questions:

-Remember to plan out your runs for the spinnaker lines, assuming you will fly one and that you're running the halyard, uphaul/downhaul, etc under the cuddy.
-What's your actual bulkhead going to be? Planks, strips, or just a plywood sheet? Assuming planks/strips, you may want to route coves in each one, or a rabbet, to give some strength - locking each plank to it's neighbor. Assuming Plywood, you may want to build a "tree" in the center (right for'ard of the centerboard trunk) for stability.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:47 am

Excellent point, my goal is to make the controls you use to be easy to access. I'm leaving the spinnaker until last, for our club racing we don't use them, it is like bumper cars out there. We only use spinnakers a couple times a year so you need to make the controls as simple as possible. To answer the second question, I'm going to use what I believe is called a bead and cove and glue the strakes together. After the bulkhead is made I'd like to pull it out and glass both sides for strength as the bulkhead will be less than 1/4 inch thick.

One thing that is really nice about Woodie that I want to keep as stock as possible is the mast. It is an original Ian Proctor mast, something like serial number 87. It is one of his first and beautifully hand crafted out of aircraft aluminum with a slight taper at the top. All the mast has is a jib and main halyard, internal, but the cool part is they are routed in the sail track and come out right at the deck. The whole forward half of the mast appears to be sealed so it has some buoyancy. Anyone who has turtled a boat will appreciate a buoyant mast. So, no spinnaker controls yet.

I'm writing up my thoughts on jib controls. My current SLI DS1 is set up for North Sails but I want something different so I asked Hank Jotz make a set of sails for Woodie. Hank's jibs are weapons, now if I can only figure out his mains then I think Woodie will fly. His sails are quite different from North and my notes show that the controls are placed in different spots. I put together my notes along with a jib control plan for Woodie. One that will allow the fixed bulkhead.

Image
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby tomodda » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:19 am

Cove and bead strips is certainly the gold-plated way I'd go if I had the ambition - and good table router - to do it right. Wishing you much success and certainly going to be a beauty! And very jealous of your mast, definitely sounds like a setup that is worth all the work of restoring 'Woodie."

Question regarding "barber-inhauling." Is there ever a reason to have the inhaul at lengths different lengths port and starboard? Leaving aside any questions of ergonomics, I keep thinking about rigging mine so that both sides are spliced to a single "tail" going to a central block on centerboard trunk and then to hand. Less aggravation, less line flopping around the edge of my cuddy. I think it's doable with a small standup block with a cam cleat mount, but I need to really measure and consider the aforementioned ergonomics. Not to mention other projects that are taking priority.....
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:12 pm

I have those Jotz sails as well.

For Barber inhauls, you want to be able to adjust the leeward one when sitting on the windward side. The easiest way to do that is to have the cleat on the opposite side (with the two lines crossing each other at the center).

Normally, they would be operated by the crew. Even if you sail singlehanded, your seating position should be forward enough that you should be able to reach these. We are discussing a DS1 here, where the deck at the cuddy opening is a simple angle. On a DS2 there would be a bit of a raised "lip" which would allow you to lay the tails of the barber haulers flat on the deck. On a DS1, they would slide off and hang down, so you need to position your cleats far enough outboard to be able to reach the tails.

I decided to mount my cleats on the rim facing the cockpit, instead of on top of the deck.
1841

My current plan calls for 5 cleats. Two for the barber haul, spinnaker halyard, downhaul, and jib halyard tensioner. (if I ever rig one, I might add one for a jib downhaul).

I'm generally not in favor of long complicated runs...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:51 pm

GreenLake wrote:I'm generally not in favor of long complicated runs...

There is a fine line with controls, simple is better, and I like them easy for crews to understand. It is nice to also have them at hand. Much of the crew's work is "line management", making sure that all lines are free and at hand for instant adjustment. On Woodie, I'd like them to adjust the jib sheet with one hand and the barber hauler with the other. I have the laminated wood deckbeam ready to fit for the bulkhead but I have to first figure out an uncomplicated run the barber haulers. I'd like them to exit right where the crew sits on there rail since you are adjusting the barber hauler in roughly 6 to 20 mph of wind. This control corresponds with hiking out. I want low friction and a straight pull so I have to be careful with exit plates or fairleads. I'm thinking of using old fashioned phenolic through deck fairleads 5" off center, run the line inside the cuddy and our to a simple clam cleat.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:27 pm

If you want simple for the barber haulers, but have the controls at hand for a crew hiking out, you can put a cam cleat with fairlead on top of the cuddy, a few inches in from the side edge on the windward side of the cuddy and let the two barber haulers cross each other on deck. (The cleat would end up within inches of your proposed outboard exit point). Orient the cleat so that the crew will pull out in a straight line, if you expect that they will be hiking. The tail can fall on the side deck.

Or you can angle the cleat a bit (about 45 degrees) and mount it closer to the aft edge of the cuddy and let the tail fall down next to the coamings. (A bit like what I have, but mounted on top and further outward). It should still be able to be operated while hiking that way, it would be reachable and you can pull outward. And you can operate it from inside the boat as well (pulling in). The barber haulers aren't that heavily loaded, so your cleat doesn't have to be perfectly aligned in the direction of the load or direction of pull. (Whether to fully optimize for operating this from the hiked position changes with crew weight and with average wind strength in your sailing area; we often adjust the barber haulers before we have to hike).

Because the block on the end of the barber hauler "floats" along the jib sheet, the precise angle of pull for the barber hauler isn't as critical, as long as its mainly horizontal. Therefore, I see no special operational advantage of your chosen exit point position (5" from center). But your hidden run has two through deck fittings that you don't need (and it has two lines crossing out of sight). Those would be complications that I'd tend to avoid.

Note that your drawing shows that the barber hauler will pull at some point aft of the sail. Precisely how far from the sail that happens does not matter, as long as the angle of the sheet as it exits forward of the barber hauler is the desired one (and as long as it doesn't interfere with the angle in the vertical plane. Anyway, that's my understanding of how that's supposed to work.

Actually, if placed as in your diagram the barber hauler would pull down as well as in, mostly in it's maximally tight position. Not sure whether that's desired or harmful. Bet the effect is small enough to be ignorable.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:08 pm

GreenLake wrote:Actually, if placed as in your diagram the barber hauler would pull down as well as in, mostly in it's maximally tight position. Not sure whether that's desired or harmful. Bet the effect is small enough to be ignorable.

I think some downward pull is good. I view the barber haulers as a fine tuning device. Your jib sheet is your primary control, then when that is set, you can use the barber hauler to tune the jib a little better.
I'm trying to make the controls on Woodie as integrated as possible. We get enough bruises from just sailing. I'd like to have everything smooth and flush even if it isn't as fast. I made a little progress on the bulkhead and it looks like it will work.

Image

This is just a mockup held in by clamps. There is a strengthening bead under the lip of the cabin top that makes it difficult to let in the deck beam. I have the beam inset a bout a half an inch which I think will work well for mounting controls. This is where I'd like to have the control for the barber haulers, right under the lip

Image

Now the decision I need to make is whether to tuck the strakes under the cabin top lip or cut a rabbit in the deck beam.
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