New member with project DS1, hello! (A restoration thread)

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS1. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

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New member with project DS1, hello! (A restoration thread)

Postby Brianl289 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:15 pm

Hi there, happy to be a new member. For months I’ve made it a goal to get into sailing and did a lot of research, rented a bunch of books from the library and watched plenty of YouTube videos. Recently ran into a buddy from college and we got to talking about sailing and he mentioned he had a daysailer sitting at his in-laws. We made a deal and I went and picked the boat up today. It needs a lot of work but I have experience restoring cars/motorcycles so this should be similar in some ways. The boat came with 2 sets of sails and the trailer for 500. My plans are to repaint it and redo the interior wood work. At the moment it doesn’t have any. Also doesn’t seem to have a rudder so I’ll need to sort that out too. Anyways, keep an eye on this page as I get into the restoration. All of the paint arrived today too so I’m hoping to get started next week.
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:58 am

Welcome to the forum.

Some of your work will be about restoring not just the appearance, but the function of this as a sailboat. That's where the materials may be similar to what you are used to work with, but the requirements may be different from what you are used to. Getting some reading under your belt will help, but sailing is notorious for that you can master the beginnings relatively quickly only to discover that the learning curve never entire flattens out. Which, for many, is part of the fascination.

I remember the first time I sailed on a big 45' boat and someone suggested to let the mainsheet out by 2". I thought, this is such a tiny amount, on a line controlling hundreds of square feet of sail, how can this matter? But sure enough, the sail began to draw noticeably better and the boat sped up.

So, as you try to refit your boat, make sure to get enough sailing in, and be open to the idea that your conception of what you are aiming for with your rigging, etc. may shift with experience.

That said, you mention a rudder. You could post a Want to Buy ad to see whether anyone has an old factory rudder (serviceable at best) to sell you, or you could build your own: see here for possible instructions on building a rudder. What is described in that thread has been built and is still in use on my boat. There are other approaches to the same problems, some of them are discussed in the original thread, for others you'd need to search the forum.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:47 pm

Got a chance to power wash the boat today and get it onto some horses for fiber glass repair and paint. A few issues here and there but nothing too crazy. I am going to redo the top coat now as well as the previous cost is coming off too easily.

As far as rigging is concerned, is there a parts diagram for these boats? Something I can look at to verify the inventory of what I have on hand? Also, the ropes are toast, is there a reference for how many feet and what diameters I will need? The online owners manual does not reference this.

Here are some pictures, next step is to start sanding everything down.
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:49 pm

More pics
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:50 pm

Brian,

this is probably going to turn into a lengthy discussion, so I'm going to itemize it a bit.
  1. Rudder: we discussed that earlier. Source a used one, or build your own
  2. Transom: we are missing a critical picture from you: the inside of your transom. It appears there were some repairs done to the upper gudgeon. The "backing plate" for these is a strip of wood glassed on the inside. Now's the time to determine whether that wood is rotted and to replace it, before you proceed with painting the interior.
  3. Coamings and carlins: the early DS1s have wooden coamings attached to wooden carlins under the side decks. The gap between deck and seat seems to have been filled (for additional flotation). That is usually an improvement, although it necessitates finding replacement stowage areas (like for your paddle). You do want to restore the coamings. Either full height, or just flush to the deck level. They add a bit of structural support to the boat, to the point where the class association doesn't allow anyone to race the boat without them. Check the gallery for pictures of other boats like yours (similar cockpit layout/age).
  4. Thwarts: the boat is supposed to have two wooden "thwarts" that connect the seats to the CB trunk. You can see the place where the seat molding have room to attach them. On the CB side, they are usually held by L brackets glued/glassed to the CB trunk. They give needed stability to the boat. You may need to measure them to your boat, because of tolerances, but if you do so, don't support the boat only on the keel, as that will "open" it. Material, like the coaming used to be mahogany, but you can see what you can afford and check on google which species are good for marine use. (I epoxy-sealed mine as described on the SystemThree site, or also in several posts here).
  5. Mast: your mast is keel stepped with a mast-jack (the fat threaded rod with circular nut). You are supposed to drop the mast in, attach the stays, and then raise the mast by turning the nut until there's suitable tension in the rig - about when you can start to strum a note on one of the shrouds (aka side stays).
  6. Mast-raising: you can make your life much easier if you rig a mast-raising support; discussed here on the forum quite recently under "mast raising help". Some people cut the mast and put a hinge in, but that affects the sailing quality of the boat. With a little bit of additional hardware, you can step a keel-stepped mast just as easily and sail better.
  7. Standing rigging (forestay and shrouds): Check if you have the 3/32 diameter wires, if so, replace (order from DR Marine, by phone, mention you have a mast jack). Otherwise, if they are already 1/8th, use what you have for the first few trips and then decide whether they might have reached their 10-15 year replacement schedule.
  8. Running rigging: The "lines". Let's discuss these w/o spinnaker first. (There's a separate thread under "How to Rig and Fly a Spinnaker" that has all the details). You will find a full discussion of the complete running rigging on my boat in the thread "Rope for various lines".
  9. Jib and Main: You will need a jib and main halyard and a jib and main sheet. The jib sheet can be divided or continuous. Each half of the jib sheet needs to be long enough that you can extend the clew of the jib 90 off the bow and still reach the jib cleat on the opposite side of the boat. The required length differs by jib cleat placement, which is not uniform. I don't see any cleats on your boat - did you remove them? Were they on the CB trunk? The mainsheet needs to be long enough that the boom can come all the way forward until it touches the shroud. How long that is depends on how your mainsheet is rigged. We are missing a picture of the stern quarter of your boat - that would show what kind of traveler was rigged on your boat. You may need to replace the traveler, or you may decide to use a slightly different setup in order to follow one of the setups you see here.
  10. Outhaul, Reefline, Cunningham: you need one line to pull the clew of the main all the way to the end of the boom. Length depends on where you place your cleat for it. Your boat may have had a Cunningham or a Reefline - depends on whether your sails have the grommet for one and and/or any reef points.
  11. Rigging for a DS is personal: every DS of a certain age has been customized, as there are no class rules restricting the running rigging. Before you assume there's only "one way", read older posts here and make up your mind what you might like best and then start with that - be prepared to change your mind as you gain experience - there are several "good" ways to do it, but no single way is absolutely the "best". No need to overthink and be perfectionist.
  12. Hardware, and where to place it: Again, lots of personal choice here. I like to tie my halyards at the mast, others like to lead these to the deck. Many cleat their jib sheets on the CB trunk top (may require making a bit of a platform - details on request) others have jib cars that combine cleat and fairlead.
  13. Sails: sails are consumables. You get between a few dozen to perhaps a hundred uses out of them, more in lighter winds and cruising, fewer in lost of heavy winds and racing. Whatever sails may have come with your boat, unless barely used, are likely due for a replacement; however, probably still good for a few test sails.
  14. Coating the inside of your boat: Lots of people are doing different things, from house paint to special "bilge paints". One option is to apply gel coat. You need the one that comes mixed with wax, so it cures on air, but spraying some PVA curing agent after curing has started will further help the gelcoat cure correctly. I've experimented with using standard universal tinting agent and very little is needed to turn white gelcoat a medium to light gray, for example and it seems to not affect the cure. (There are special tinting agents sold for gelcoat, if you don't have anything at hand). Gelcoat is easy to apply and delivers a thick, durable film in a single application, great for a surface that is"underfoot". Stinks, so painters mask with carbon filter.
  15. Where to have the follow-on discussion: for you, it's all about your boat, but there are many others who like to learn from your example. Accordingly, try to break your questions into separate topics and place them into the appropriate section. (Hint: very few things are truly specific to a DS1. Neither rigging nor sails are one of them.)
By now, you probably feel buried in detail; I've tried to keep the suggestions pretty general and accessible; on the other hand, you may already know more than I have assumed, in which case, please don't take that personal. Looking forward to your follow-on questions. Please to read the linked threads, there's a lot of detail there that should help you with coming up with answers or more questions.

Good luck!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:10 pm

Thank you for the detailed response!

1) Yes, I am following up tomorrow with previous owner to see the status of a rudder. If needed I will build one no problem.
2) I do have a picture but the lighting is bad. There is no wood on the inside of the transom opposite where the rudder mounts. Just fiberglass and what seems to be some sort of silicone repair.
3) Yes my plan is to pull the existing foam and replace with something better than won't flake away (pool noodles?) and rebuild the wood sides. I will likely go deck height.
4) OK perfect, I was curious about how to attach them and planned on making some. Is the way I have the boat sitting on horses causing an issue with this gap? Should I move the boat forward or perhaps just support the boat around the middle using shims.
5) Ok, I noticed this assembly is pretty wobbly and loose. Should it be more "fixed?"
6) Excellent I am definitely going to do that. Moving the mast off the trailer was a chore in itself.
7) I do have the wires but the adjustable clips/attachments at the bottom look incomplete or damaged on a couple of them. I will measure the wire diameter tomorrow to verify.
9) I have no removed any hardware myself yet. What is there is what it came with. As far as I know the only cleats I saw were on the rear of the boat. But I can take more photos tomorrow. I also have 2 sets of main sails and 2 jibs. I will open them tomorrow to photo graph. One is currently attached to the boom.
13) The sails that I currently have sat in the weather for a few years so I am not expecting them to be any good. The others are at the PO house hopefully in good shape. I will find out tomorrow.
14) OK I currently have Intertex Polyurethane on hand as well as some bildgekote and bottomkote. My plan was to use the polyurethane in dark blue to match the new outside color I go with. I am also going to rebuild the floor planks so interior color isn't super important however I will likely buy some of the white top coat paint for the new top with some sort of grip component mixed in.


Thank you for your help so far. Tomorrow I will take more specific photos of hardware and get a better idea of where I am at with the rigging.
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby tomodda » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:26 pm

Hi Brian! Nice boat.. needs work, but all very doable and you'll have a great DS1. Where are you at, I may be able to help you out of your rudder issue, I have a spare.

Tom
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby igotit » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:46 pm

i cant help with the rigging aspect,but i can share a few pics of the transom to give you an idea of whats missing and the repair.as stated theres supposed to be a piece of wood glassed in.most old ds1 wood is rotton or missing.i replaced mine about a week ago,so i still have the measurements on hand if you need them.most people use 1/2 marine ply,i had some 3/8 fiberglass dropoff on hand so i used that.so my transom finished measurements were 3/8 thick by 7" wide by 16.5" tall.after glassed in and lay up my transom is now 3/4 thick solid glass.
i dont know much about daysailors,or sailboats.....im new aswell.but ive tackled some of the repairs already.feel free to look at my thread.....may find a useful picture in there.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6205
ill be watching this thread aswell,im learing the rigging aspect,and theres a great......helpfull group here.
my transom before and after.

Image20200604_161312 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200604_163108 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
dry fit temp brace setup to hold the new transom in place
Image20200610_185324 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200610_193446 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200615_173313 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:48 am

tomodda wrote:Hi Brian! Nice boat.. needs work, but all very doable and you'll have a great DS1. Where are you at, I may be able to help you out of your rudder issue, I have a spare.

Tom


Hey thanks Tom! I am located in San Antonio, Texas. I will hopefully know by the end of today where I am at with the rudder situation.

igotit wrote:i cant help with the rigging aspect,but i can share a few pics of the transom to give you an idea of whats missing and the repair.as stated theres supposed to be a piece of wood glassed in.most old ds1 wood is rotton or missing.i replaced mine about a week ago,so i still have the measurements on hand if you need them.most people use 1/2 marine ply,i had some 3/8 fiberglass dropoff on hand so i used that.so my transom finished measurements were 3/8 thick by 7" wide by 16.5" tall.after glassed in and lay up my transom is now 3/4 thick solid glass.
i dont know much about daysailors,or sailboats.....im new aswell.but ive tackled some of the repairs already.feel free to look at my thread.....may find a useful picture in there.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6205
ill be watching this thread aswell,im learing the rigging aspect,and theres a great......helpfull group here.
my transom before and after.


Hey thank you for this information! I am able to pick up some marine grade ply locally so this is on my to-do list. Can't believe it didn't have any bracing!
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:12 pm

Ok after further inspection, I may have the transom support? Here is a photo.

Image

Here is the rest of the hardware currently on the boat. I will have mast photos later once I get the other set of sails.

1 Image
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9 Image
10 Image
11 Image
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14 Image
Last edited by Brianl289 on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:11 pm

Brian,

the rigging hardware you show is not complete, and some is a bit unusual.

  1. Stemhead fitting(bow): This looks like it has a way to adjust the forestay tension with some hardware that is underneath the deck (because of that wire that goes down). In principle, it's a nifty feature to have, but you need to figure out how it was rigged and lead a line back (perhaps that was what that cleat on the side of the CB trunk was used for??
  2. The transom was rigged for a traveler (the two sheaves embedded). You can fit a line there that makes a triangle (connected underneath) with a block (pulley) at the apex through which the mainsheet runs. Your boat had cleats below the rear deck to adjust the traveler --- there's also a chance that the boat used a split main sheet, but you don't have to replicate this -- you may read up on what it is, though.
  3. Your mainsheet swivel and cleat on the CB trunk looks ancient. See whether you like how it feels. I'm still using my original, other people have upgraded theirs.
  4. Your mainsheet might be rigged this way: from the swivel, up to a block on the mid boom, from there to a block at the back of the boom, down to the block on the traveler, back up and tied off on a becket that's part of the block on the back end of the boom. That would be a typical setup. You should be able to find pictures.
  5. Your transom support shows exposed wood. No good; likely has rot. Nick shows how to replace that with solid fiberglass, but I think that's not necessary. Just fit a piece of outdoor/marine plywood and seal it in epoxy on all 6 sides before glassing it in. (You will need to carefully seal any holes you drill, to maintain perfect seal). That should do it (and it's lighter than a plate of fiberglass - weight at the stern is to be avoided almost as assiduously as weight at the top of the mast).
  6. I have no idea what the U shaped plate on the middle of the foredeck is supposed to be. Any legible writing on it?
  7. The mast jack is indeed "wobbly" when not in use. Not an issue. Do grease it well before using, but not too much or it will get black grease on any gear you stow. Maybe some of the more "waxy" lubricants?
  8. The eye strap on the transom may have been put there for hiking straps.
  9. No idea what the two cheek blocks at the mast base might have been used for, esp. as there's no visible cleat anywhere that any lines going through them might have been cleated to
  10. No idea what T-shaped key fit into the deck fitting. Not a part I've seen before
  11. You appear to have a set of spinnaker blocks on the stern (aft of the stern cleats. Looks like they are snatch blocks (i.e. you don't need to thread the sheet through when rigging, but just close the block around it - evidence of rather sophisticated rigging on your boat at one time - you apparently do not have a spinnaker sail - don't discount the idea of getting and rigging one eventually.
  12. I'm still not seeing any cleats for the jib sheets. Perhaps there's a set of block/cleat combinations that were mounted directly on the jib tracks. Or you may simply use a block there and cleat on the CB trunk like in the image below.

The mystery hardware directly underneath the cuddy deck I have no idea about. And we've not seen what cleats / blocks / sheaves are on your mast and boom. If I missed something let me know, the images are so large that I can't see them in their entirety without a lot of scrolling, so easy to miss something.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:13 pm

One way to cleat the jib sheets. Requires some "platform". I had mine made at a local shop.
1034
Bolts go through the trunk, but so high up they don't touch the CB.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:49 pm

1) Yes in photo 9 you can see a rope coming through a hole in the front wall. It is attached to that wire. There is also a cleat under neath that I believe it attaches to.
2) Ok perfect I understand
3) ok will add that to my test check list
4) Will post pictures of the boom I have as well. I believe you are correct.
5) Ok I will verify. I am not sure if that is wood or exposed fiberglass (paint chipped during power washing) Noted either way.
6) Will inspect tomorrow
7) noted
8) 10-4
9) ok
10) ok
11) yes no spinnaker at this time, PO didn't have on either during his ownership. Good to know as I would like to get one some day.

I resized the images above too.

Here are more pictures from today. Good news is I have a rudder! And one set of sails is in much better shape than the other. Also the bottom part of the mast seems to have a slight bend.


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And here is a nice haul of Alaskan Yellow Cedar I will be milling up and turning into a new floor/bench backs.

Image
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby Brianl289 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 pm

Found out that top plate says RAY-O-VAC. Must be something to do with a battery or lighting system at one point.

Also found out the transom support had way more rot than before. Going to fix that tomorrow!
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Re: New member with project DS1, hello!

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:17 am

Ray-O-Vac: perhaps someone had a "search light" mounted on the foredeck.

About all the picx you posted. Too much to just sift; can you ask some questions about anything specific?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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