Another new member with an old boat!

[dhunter]

I just joined your membership today. I have been reading the forum for a few days now and had most of my questions answered already, thank you.

I do, however, have some more.

First of all, my name is Don and I live in southern Kentucky. I was born in the state of NY and grew up sailing on the Hudson river and Long Island Sound. The family started out in an 11' Robin, then graduated to a 21 Mc Gregor Venture, then a 22 Venture and finally a 27' Grampian Eagle double cabin. That was years ago.

When I maried, we moved to FL and I lived in Venice Florida for 16 years and my kids were born there boating and sailing. They learned to sail at the Venice Yacht Club youth sailing program in Optimist Prams and 420's.

I hold a 50 ton Captain's License with commercial assistance endorsement and I am currently the owner of a marine towing and salvage business here on Lake Cumberland in KY.

Enough background.

Last weekend I bought a Daysailer 1 (I assume). I had an O'day Tempest in the past. I have never been much into racing, so I find some of the rigging unfamiliar to me on this boat. It appears as though this boat is well equipped by the prior owner. It was sold in an estate sale and last registered in 1994!

1) The hull number is 19860 and the class # is 1324. I assume that means it is a '69 Daysailer 1, but I am not sure.

2) The boat is rigged for spinnaker use. It has the thru-deck blocks at the stern with turning blocks behind a notch in the coamings. What I cannot figure out is how they were managing the standard jib. I found traveler tracks in the boat that have been removed from the coamings. I assume I should re-install them the way it was originally?

3) The tiller was missing so I ordered a new one from D&R. What type extension do you suggest and what type of pricing shoul dI expect to find. I would like aluminum with a swivel.

4) Some of the sheets and halyards terminate in an aluminum fitting that has 2 eyes. The one empty side eye has a 1/16" slit in it. I have not seen this type of fitting before and therefore unsure how it is used. Any help?

5) There is a small wire coming through a plate on the very forepeak on the boat just behind the forestay. I am not sure the purpose for it. It comes back into the cuddy and is now simply laying on the floor. I assume it has something to do with a spinnaker or spinnaker pole?

6) I assume the holes with grommets in the deck on either side of the mast are for the spinnaker halyard and possibly a topping lift? There are blocks for each at the foot of the mast inside the cabin, but I see nowhere to cleat the lines.

7) The floorboards are pretty much shot. Anybody have a set they want to sell?

8] The boat has newer sails, but the number was ordered to match the TN state registration number. What shoudl the sail number be, shoulc I want to make it right?

9) Has anyone tried filling the air chambers with 2lb density closed cell expanding foam?

That's all I can think of at the moment. I will have some more to ask of your expertise I am sure as things progress.

I really appreciate all your time, help and responses.

I have been getting a lot of really odd looks around here as nobody seems to sail on this lake. There is a stretch from the dam upriver for about 10 miles that is about 1 mile wide where the wind is great on most days. I think it would be a blast in one of these boats.

Let me see if I can figure out how to post some pics of the issues.

[dhunter]

[img][img]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/dhunter21/oday%20daysailer/oday004.jpg[/img]
This is after it was cleaned up a little

[/img]
The inside.

[img][img]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/dhunter21/oday%20daysailer/oday006.jpg[/img]
Seems to have a nice traveler setup.

[/img]
What is this for??

[img][img]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/dhunter21/oday%20daysailer/oday008.jpg[/img]
What are the holes and blocks underneath used for?

[/img]
How do you used this type of sheet end?

[img][img]http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/dhunter21/oday%20daysailer/oday003.jpg[/img]
Year? What sail number? Which model boat?[/img]

[persephone]

I think I can answer a few of these. I have no doubt that all your questions will be answered shortly. Welcome to the Daysailer world.
#2) The traveler is the standard way to handle the jib sheets. Usually it leads to cam (or clam) cleats on the centerboard trunk, via eyepads on the thwart. Additionally some racing boats will have 'twinger' lines over the cuddy top to pull the sheet towards the centerline of the boat.
#3) Another good source of parts, prices and ideas is mauriprosailing.com or the chandlery of sailboatowners.com I have an older fixed length extension, aluminum with a small 'T' at the end. I prefer the lightweight small ended ones myself.
#5) Sounds like it is a jib downhaul (sometimes called jib cunningham). I'm still sketchy on it's exact use but it is to provide tension to the luff of the jib when sailing on specific points of sail. It sounds like something may be missing if it's just a wire.
#7)I do have floorboards, unfortunately I think the shipping from MA to KY would be more than the boards.
#9)There are many discussions on flotation (search using that term to pick up the majority of them). I don't know if anyone has used that specific density foam, but I know many have used expanding foam.
If you go from the ds.org home find the rigging guide under technical info that might point you in the right direction for some of the halyard questions.
I hope you enjoy the Daysailer.

[persephone]

Ahh, #4) Brummel (sp?) hooks. You would have two of these per sheet end, sort of a male/female union. The two slits mate at a 90 degree angle to each other and slip together.
I see from the pics that the thwarts are missing. You will see them in many pics giving side support to the top of the centerboard trunk. It's possible there were cleats for the pole control lines or the jib cunningham on the underside of the thwarts.
I think you have the halyards right. Stock boats just used the horn cleats on the cuddy top. The small holes are indeed probably pole control lines. Theoretically you could have a topping lift and downhaul on the pole.
Definitely a Daysailer One.

[GreenLake]

From the pictures it looks like the Jib sheets are lead via the side decks and through the coamings. That tallies with a class number in the 1300s but would mean a '62 or '63 and definitely not a '69.

If you dig a bit on this site there's a thread on DS design changes, which has a link to a spreadsheet. You can enter your boat there, or put the info into a reply on the thread, and someone else will enter it for you.

My class number is (presumably) just a few dozen later than yours, but I don't have the plaque to prove it. Can you tell us where in your boat that builder's plaque was located? It's not possible to tell from the photo.

BTW, the class # is what you call the sail #.

The floorboards are not an overly challenging piece of woodworking. So, in case that the damage you report isn't uniform, it should be easy to replace individual slats or cross members. On mine, two slats are a bit warped, but once I'm sailing, I don't notice that - they are flat enough.

If in doubt, give the worst spots a test sanding.

There are posts here on the site with measurements and detailed photos, if you want to build a set from scratch, or ask a buddy to work one up for you.

I believe to be class legal you would need to restore the thwarts. One can see the notch in the seats and the brackets on the CB trunk where they go. Your traveler does give some support to the CB, that is true, but the thwarts make nifty cup holders, which you probably have seen, if you read a number of the recent posts.

Anyway, they are not hard to re-create.

About foam: don't use expanding foam. You cannot control it and if there should be voids, and water gets into those, you cannot find out or fix it. Bite the bullet, put 8" deck plates into the forward end of the seats and fill with pool noodles or similar. Or use air bladders.

[dhunter]

I think I can answer a few of these. I have no doubt that all your questions will be answered shortly. Welcome to the Daysailer world.
#2) The traveler is the standard way to handle the jib sheets. Usually it leads to cam (or clam) cleats on the centerboard trunk, via eyepads on the thwart. Additionally some racing boats will have 'twinger' lines over the cuddy top to pull the sheet towards the centerline of the boat.
#3) Another good source of parts, prices and ideas is mauriprosailing.com or the chandlery of sailboatowners.com I have an older fixed length extension, aluminum with a small 'T' at the end. I prefer the lightweight small ended ones myself.
#5) Sounds like it is a jib downhaul (sometimes called jib cunningham). I'm still sketchy on it's exact use but it is to provide tension to the luff of the jib when sailing on specific points of sail. It sounds like something may be missing if it's just a wire.
#7)I do have floorboards, unfortunately I think the shipping from MA to KY would be more than the boards.
#9)There are many discussions on flotation (search using that term to pick up the majority of them). I don't know if anyone has used that specific density foam, but I know many have used expanding foam.
If you go from the ds.org home find the rigging guide under technical info that might point you in the right direction for some of the halyard questions.
I hope you enjoy the Daysailer.

Thank You.

Shipping of the floorboards shouldn't be too awful bad via UPS ground. I have a commercial account and location. I bet they would cost about $50 to ship if they were fastened together and wrapped in cardboard as a unit. How much do you want for them?

[dhunter]

Ahh, #4) Brummel (sp?) hooks. You would have two of these per sheet end, sort of a male/female union. The two slits mate at a 90 degree angle to each other and slip together.
I see from the pics that the thwarts are missing. You will see them in many pics giving side support to the top of the centerboard trunk. It's possible there were cleats for the pole control lines or the jib cunningham on the underside of the thwarts.
I think you have the halyards right. Stock boats just used the horn cleats on the cuddy top. The small holes are indeed probably pole control lines. Theoretically you could have a topping lift and downhaul on the pole.
Definitely a Daysailer One.

Thank You.

OK, these brummel hooks are on the ends of the spinnaker sheets that come out of the stern gunwale of the boat on either side. There must have been another type of reception point on the port and starboard ends of the spinnaker to accept them. I don't have the spinnaker.


When you say the holes in the deck by the mast hole are probably pole control line holes, are you refering to the spinnaker pole, or for a topping lift and spinnaker halyard?

Sorry, my sail terminology is not good.

I am trying to locate some 1"X8" Mahogany to make new thwarts, but it seems it is hard to find here.

[dhunter]

From the pictures it looks like the Jib sheets are lead via the side decks and through the coamings. That tallies with a class number in the 1300s but would mean a '62 or '63 and definitely not a '69.

If you dig a bit on this site there's a thread on DS design changes, which has a link to a spreadsheet. You can enter your boat there, or put the info into a reply on the thread, and someone else will enter it for you.

My class number is (presumably) just a few dozen later than yours, but I don't have the plaque to prove it. Can you tell us where in your boat that builder's plaque was located? It's not possible to tell from the photo.

BTW, the class # is what you call the sail #.

The floorboards are not an overly challenging piece of woodworking. So, in case that the damage you report isn't uniform, it should be easy to replace individual slats or cross members. On mine, two slats are a bit warped, but once I'm sailing, I don't notice that - they are flat enough.

If in doubt, give the worst spots a test sanding.

There are posts here on the site with measurements and detailed photos, if you want to build a set from scratch, or ask a buddy to work one up for you.

I believe to be class legal you would need to restore the thwarts. One can see the notch in the seats and the brackets on the CB trunk where they go. Your traveler does give some support to the CB, that is true, but the thwarts make nifty cup holders, which you probably have seen, if you read a number of the recent posts.

Anyway, they are not hard to re-create.

About foam: don't use expanding foam. You cannot control it and if there should be voids, and water gets into those, you cannot find out or fix it. Bite the bullet, put 8" deck plates into the forward end of the seats and fill with pool noodles or similar. Or use air bladders.

The jib sheets do not run through the coamings. Sorry the picture does not show it better. As best I can tell, someone added a sheet guide plate alongside the cuddy out near the rubrail and then a small jam cleat for the jib. The coaming traveler cars were removed. The cam cleats and fairleads are still on the CB trunk. Ifound the original traveler tracks in the boat, but no cars or blocks. I have since ordered new ones.

The way the jib was apparently being used seems cumbersome and probably a bad setup for a gusty day. I am assumin I am going back to the stock setup.

I am going to make new thwarts as soon as I can locate some mahogany. I did like the cupholder idea as well.

The hull number plate is located in the cuddy on the top edge of the bouyancy chamber and between the two storage areas.

Me, being a marine salvage guy, like the airbag idea. I assume you will get more bouyancy from a filled airbag than from foam, but I may be wrong.

[persephone]

RE pole control, yes I should have specified spinnaker pole. Some boats use a line to hold the pole up (topping lift) and one to hold it down. The downhaul might be less likely on a small boat such as the daysailer. The spinnaker can use a light halyard, so it's possible the halyard passed through the deck via one of the grommets.
RE floor boards. I'll weigh and measure them (tomorrow) as well as provide the ship from address via PM so you can estimate the cost. Let me take a proper assessment of their condition before we discuss price. Send me an e-mail address via PM and I'll send some pics your way tomorrow.

[GreenLake]

It's interesting that there's so much cracking around the holes for what one would suppose to be spinnaker related control lines. Large sideways loads?

[dhunter]

It's interesting that there's so much cracking around the holes for what one would suppose to be spinnaker related control lines. Large sideways loads?

Gelcoat is funny stuff. If you screw or drill through it, you really need to champfer the hole well to keep it from cracking like that. I usually use a cone shaped countersink bit after drilling and before installing hardware to keep cracking from appearing like that.

I really don't know what else would have caused that. The grommets should have no stress there on them from lines.

[dhunter]

Why....
is my class number so low @ 1324

and...

The hull number so high @ 19868

???

It is right on the original number plate.

The Tennessee registration shows 1969 for the year, but who knows?

[ctenidae]

There's no direct relation between hull # and class #- if they popped a Daysailer hull out followed by a Tempest hull, their hull numbers would be sequential. The next Daysailer hull out would have a sequential class number with eth first one. So, hull numbers track the actual number of all types of hulls, while the class numbers are ordered for that particular class of boat. To make it even more fun, the class numbers weren't necessarly assigned sequentially to hulls. If 5 hulls were pulled, the class numbers could have been assigned in whatever order they got around to assigning them.

Theres no doubt that your hull number and class number are right- they're on the plate. I think the registration's year is definitely wrong- the class # is consistent with early 60's, but you have the wide rub rail configuration, so you have to be post 1962. Also no bumps for the wire traveller. I'd say almost certainly a 1963, or very late 1962.

I see you found teh spreadsheet- good deal. I wanted to double check on the motor well, though- I don't think you have one- it's an inset in the transom, like a sink (or beer cooler). Looks like you have a motor mount added, but I don't see a well- coudl you check? The well was added in 1963, so you probably should have one. Also check for floor stringers- I don't think they started adding those in until 1965 or so.

Oh yeah- welcome to Daysailer.org!

[seandwyer]

Looks like there are stringers in the floor to me. And big inspection ports installed in both seats directly across from the aft edge of the center board trunk. I can't tell if there is a motor well either - there is a motor mount sitting at about that place on the transom - is it sitting in the well? The boat looks just like mine if the well is there - the only differences are the water line paint and the rub rail is a different color, both things that are by no means permanent. Mines a 1968, but my class number is in the 3000's.

[dhunter]

The boat definately has a factory molded in engine well. The bracket you see is sitting loose in it. I guess the old owner had the bracket made and never used it. I don't plan to either, if somebody wants it.

I have a 1969 Evinrude 2 HP outboard I plan on using that my parents bought brand new for the Sumner dingy we used back then. I have kept it all these years.

The boat does have floor stringers.

It also has, what looks like, factory inspection ports in the molded seats facing the CB trunk. The seats have white styrofoam in them still, probably wet.

Here's another odd factoid on this boat. The number on the sail is 3855. It matches the TN registration number stickers on the bow, but not the class number on the plate. I ASSUMED the old owner had a new sail made and simply matched the number to the TN registration numbers. The sails appear pretty new.

Maybe not????