standing rig failure!

[K.C. Walker]

Well, I took my new '74 Daysailer out for it's shakedown cruise on Winnipesaukee a couple of weeks ago. I started out with a pretty lazy breeze but noticed some nice darker water with a few whitecaps out on the Broads. She jumped up on a plane and I was having a good old time sailing back and forth until one of the turnbuckle screws let go! So... after fishing the sails and the mast out of the 1.5-2 foot swells (with some pretty good whitecaps by now) and lashing them to the deck I motored home.

I had inspected the rigging and did see some brown but I didn't notice any cracks or cable feathers. This has been a salt water boat so I guess I should've been more cautious. After assessing the damage I ended up being able to flip the lower section of mast (under the Tabernacle) redrill and secure and then buy a turnbuckle so that I was able to go sailing for the rest of the week. Telling myself, of course, I should replace all the standing rigging.

So this week has been great sailing as I was up again in New Hampshire. Though the last day of sailing I avoided near disaster once again as the headstay stemhead cracked at one end and pulled up. Obviously this had been cracked for some time as it was totally brown on the ends where it had come loose (same as the turnbuckle screw).

OK, so now I'm worried and I really am going to replace all the standing rigging. I'm hoping I can get some advice. How much of the rigging should I replace? Chain plates? They look OK. Are the standard attachments heavy-duty enough?

1) I can buy the stemhead from D&R but how does one tightened the nuts under the deck? I don't think my arms are long enough to reach from the bulkhead. And, my head is not small enough to get through those little holes (no comments here!).

2) The straps on the mast appear OK. There is some corrosion on the rivets, though it looks minor . Do I need to replace those?

3) Is it a good idea to replace the shrouds with an 1/8" set from D&R?

Thanks for any ideas and help!

KC

[hriehl1]

Wow... Sounds like you were pretty lucky, considering what could have occurred. I've been on Lake Winnie-P a lot lately too (came across the tornado's path in Barnstead 5 minutes after it went through, it was wild. 5 detours and 20+ miles later, I got to Alton).

When I nearly lost a sidestay (about 5 strands popped), I ordered the whole standing rigging set from D&R. If I recall even their "standard" set had upgraded wire-size, and next to the OEM wire, it is notably more substantial. And then I think they sell an even further "upgraded" set (better turnbuckles), but when I phoned in my order, I think they indicated that the upgrade-set set required some drilling or replacement of deck plates and I didn't want to go there.

Given the smaller OEM rigging on my boat lasted 25 years, I'm confident the beefier "standard" set from D&R will outlive me.

My "chainplates" for the sidestays are secured by two bolts through the deck. The nuts on the underside have come loose before, so I tightened them up with some loc-tite. I do think the hardware itself is adequate. Can't help you with the stemhead, no experience with that.

The tangs on the mast should be OK, I've not heard of any failures there. But if you're concerned, you could carefully drill and punch out the rivets (trying not to distort the holes in the mast) and pop-rivet in new tangs from D&R.

[calden]

You can get past the bulkhead easily. It comes off with screws and it's easy to get to the bow section inside. Definitely replace the stemhead.

It's easy to drill out the rivets. Just use a drill bit that is slightly smaller than the diameter of the rivet. That way you won't risk enlarging the hole. When I drill out rivets by the time I get the center out the rest of it just kind of spins on the drill bit, and it pops right out.

I would replace the rivets and use Stainless Steel rivets for more strength. This might require a hardier rivet gun, and more muscle power, but they're a lot stronger than aluminum rivets. I know there might be some concern about aluminum/SS corrosion, but this isn't a big deal with freshwater use and with trailersailers, or so I've been told.

Go with whatever Rudy suggests. He's the Daysailer Jedi Knight. I replaced my standing rigging with 1/8" and it is very comforting to know I've got all that steel above my head keeping things snug in a blow.

Carlos

[K.C. Walker]

Thanks hriehl and Carlos,

Yes, I think I was lucky one that one. It sounds like luck was with you missing the tornado, as well. That one was pretty scary!

I talked to Rudy and ordered what he suggested. I did get the heavier turnbuckles because he thought that was better for a boat that stayed in the water for extended periods of time. I'm sure the rigging I had was original from '74 so I bet I would've been fine with the standard upgrade set. He did say something about having to drill the "chain plates" from 3/16 to 1/4 but I figured that wasn't bad.

Rudy also said that the stemhead had a brass backup plate that was tapped and glassed in so I should not have to fool around with nuts. Somehow I was under the impression that the screw wasn't backing out, though. I'm glad to know that that bulkhead comes off if I need to get in there. I saw the screws down the middle of the bulkhead but I thought it looked glassed in at the deck. Anyway, I should be sailing again soon without the worries of the mast going over again.

Thanks again, KC

[GreenLake]

Rudy also said that the stemhead had a brass backup plate that was tapped and glassed in so I should not have to fool around with nuts. Somehow I was under the impression that the screw wasn't backing out, though.

One of the screws in my stemhead turns w/o resistance, and is no longer tight, but can't be levered out either. That made me think of nuts as well. A tapped backing plate with stripped threads should allow the screw to be pulled out by the head, I would have thought.

As it is, I think it's something I'd want to fix, but don't know how to approach. If I were to try to drill out the screw, it would probably just spin with the drill (and drilling that much stainless isn't my idea of fun to begin with). Underneath, everything's hidden by glass.

Anyone out there have an idea?

[adam aunins]

Just off of the top of my head, you could take a hand held grinder and grind/cut the head off of the screw. You would have to be REAL CAREFUL not to bugger things up maybe lots of tape to protect things. If there is a nut you will still have to go in, but if there's a plate you would be able to tap it for a screw that fits.

[K.C. Walker]

GreenLake,

I have not been back to my boat and won't be able to get back to it for another week. I'm not as optimistic as I was, hearing your report. I was hoping that Rudy was correct and that the backing plate was tapped. My screw was tight until I loosened it and I have the distinct impression that it was spinning as if it had a nut on the backside.

Possibly in your case you could put something underneath the stem head fitting, like a putty knife, to exert enough outward pressure to get the nut to hold while you tighten the screw. That is, if it is a nut.

I did receive the new upgraded rigging with the heavy turnbuckles and they are very nice. I won't have any worries about damaging the turnbuckles or cables or having it let go again.

KC

[GreenLake]

Just off of the top of my head, you could take a hand held grinder and grind/cut the head off of the screw. You would have to be REAL CAREFUL not to bugger things up maybe lots of tape to protect things. If there is a nut you will still have to go in, but if there's a plate you would be able to tap it for a screw that fits.

Hmm. that doesn't sound too workable: the head is recessed into the fitting on deck, countersunk or whatever the term for that is, in other words, it's top is nearly flat and almost in plane with the surface (the top is a bit rounded so it bulges slightly, but you can't get at it from the side.).

The only place I could reach with a grinder would be below the deck, but the geometry doesn't look promising for that: the fitting is very far forward and on the inside it doesn't look like you could get past the two sides of the hull as they meet in front.

[GreenLake]

I was hoping that Rudy was correct and that the backing plate was tapped. My screw was tight until I loosened it and I have the distinct impression that it was spinning as if it had a nut on the backside.

Possibly in your case you could put something underneath the stem head fitting, like a putty knife, to exert enough outward pressure to get the nut to hold while you tighten the screw. That is, if it is a nut.

KC,

I tried wedging a screwdriver between the head and the fitting, but that had no effect. (There's a gap, but the angle and everything is awkward) I'm worried that in order to lift the fitting as you suggest I would have to loosen the other screw(s). If they started spinning as well, I would be in an even worse situation - although, it's probably at the point where something has to be done one way or another, anyway. The spinning screw would probably only take weight after the ohter(s) failed at this point, or after the fitting pulled hard enough at the deck to change the geometry...

(Like you, I'm not at my boat)

Would be nice to know if there are any others with similar/contrary experience.

[K.C. Walker]

I thought I would post my solution to replacing the stem head on my boat. The bulkhead in my boat is glassed in so taking that out was not an option. I really did not want to cut access holes if I didn't have to. I asked an engineer friend of mine who is rather handy and inventive and he came up with the solution. There are loose nuts and lock washers on the bottom side of a plate underneath the deck holding the stem head down on my boat.

What we did was drill a hole at the end of a narrow board (special tool #1). The hole just went part of the way through the board and was only deep enough to hold the nut and washer. The hole was just big enough to chisel out to be hexagonal. This allowed me to to hold the nut up against the bottom of the machine screw and get it started. I put a headlamp on so I could see what was going on under the deck and held the stick up against the screw while Richard screwed it in from the top. To tighten the screws we duct taped the wrench to the end of the stick (special tool #2) and I held the wrench on the nut while he tightened the screws from the top.

GreenLake, if you are still around and reading the forum, I think this wrench on a stick would solve your problem, as well.

KC

[GreenLake]

I thought I'd posted a reply here a long time ago, must have missed hitting the submit button...

Anyway, the nuts for my stem fitting seem to be encased from below (they are not visible - and unlike K.C. I can take out my bulkhead).

Will have to go back in there this summer and double check...

[talbot]

I'm lurking from the DSII forum, and I would just comment that cutting an inspection port in the forward bulkhead is pretty common on old boats. Usually it's to fix a loose bow eye, but while you're in there, you can reinforce your bow cleats and stem head.

On the DS II, the customary dismasting occurs when the whole chainplate and backing for a windward shroud pulls through the deck. I know the attachment is different on the DS I, but just in case you didn't have enough to worry about... On the II's, we back up the shroud attachments with pipe, or steel tangs, or hardwood.