DaySailer.org Forum

Currently I have a keel mount mast and setting the mast isn't really an issue but some of the launch areas I use are tight and I'm increasingly thinking it is a liability. I can take losing the mast if I lost control but the $40K SUV next to me is a different matter. I keep the DS moored a lot though and have to question how much stability I'd lose while its on the string, especially when it gets to be heavy conditions. My mooring is more open than sheltered.

Fred

Baysailer,
Could you please clarify what you mean by loss of stability? What is it that you are thinking might alter the stability? Are the car damage and stability two unrelated concerns? Or are they connected?

By stability I mean how firm and fixed the mast is when it is on the mooring. With the hinge there's two pieces tot he mast and I don't know how tight it is to any loads. The potential of property damage is unrelated, it's just my motivation to put in a hinge.

Oh okay. I understand now. Thanks for clarifying. As long as the tabernacle has been installed properly and the rigging is sound I would have no concern about the integrity of the rig, on the mooring or off.

Baysailer wrote:Currently I have a keel mount mast and setting the mast isn't really an issue but some of the launch areas I use are tight and I'm increasingly thinking it is a liability. I can take losing the mast if I lost control but the $40K SUV next to me is a different matter. I keep the DS moored a lot though and have to question how much stability I'd lose while its on the string, especially when it gets to be heavy conditions. My mooring is more open than sheltered.

A: that's what liability insurance is for (risk of injury is a different matter, insurance doesn't restore all losses there)
B: there are methods of raising keel stepped masts with good control
C: don't know whether a hinged mast is more prone to rig failure, but short of a failed stay, it shouldn't be any less stable, would be my guess.

Just had a rig failure myself while sailing. Keel stepped mast. I was able to effect a repair and despite a bend in the mast continue sailing. Try that with a hinged mast.

I have a hinged mast and don't have any worries about stability of the mast. I would think that as long as the standing rigging is good and properly adjusted, there should not be a problem.

I had a stay come off while under sail. Starboard stay while on port tack, split ring came off. I tape the split rings now. I was able to put the clevis pin back in while sailing, but before I could get a cotter pin in the clevis pin, my helmsman shifted his weight to the starboard side where I was to see what I was doing and we capsized. No mast damage tho. The winds were about 20 knots.

John

All,

Thanks for the input. I don't think there will be any issues with a hinge (I know used the term tabernacle improperly). Going to leave as is for now, I just won't use that ramp on weekends. Like I said in the original post there's no issues setting the mast even in windy conditions. My stays are relatively new and in good condition. After reading a recent post on rig failure I thoroughly checked all tangs, chainplates, bow fittings, eyebolt, block attachments, basically anything that moves or doesn't.

Fred

I would think that if your mooring area subjects your boat to more stress on the rigging than actual sailing does, you might want to find a different mooring area?

I would but that one's in front of my house.

IMHO it's perfectly correct to use the term tabernacle for the hinge. After all, the folks who sell the hinge, D&R Marine, call it a tabernacle.

I think you're right willy, and in general use the two terms are interchangeable. "Technically" though, what D&R is selling for the DS mast is in fact a hinge: two halves meant to join two like sections of mast extrusion. A tabernacle is really more of a one-piece fitting, typically found on larger boats, that is mounted directly onto the cabin roof and accepts the base of the mast, usually with some sort of compression post inside the cabin down to the keel.

The lower section of the mast is basically the compression post. It serves that function and is the part secured to the boat.

John

In one respect, the hinged DS mast may actually be more resilient. If a shroud or the forestay lets go, or if you go to lower the mast without removing the forward hinge pin, the mast will shear off the hinge rivets as if they weren't there. I know this for a fact. If the upper part of the mast survives the fall, you simply re-rivet the hinge on the end. Some owners have had steel rivets pull through the aluminum, requiring them to slightly shorten the mast to get to undamaged metal at the base.

The racers say the one-piece mast provides more direct transfer of power to the boat; I never heard of there being a maintenance or safety benefit. If you only have to step the mast once a year, I would stay with the solid spar. If you start to trailer the boat around, the hinge is a big advantage in rigging, particularly if you are by yourself.

As long as your standing rigging is properly adjusted, well.....OK, as long as it is tight enough that the mast does not move side to side as the boat rocks, there should be no problem. If the rig is lose enough that the shrouds go loose as she rocks at the mooring (NOT under sail, just sitting there with no one aboard) then suddenly go tight as the boat rolls back the other way.... then you WILL have problems.... but then I think we all know that already <GRIN!>

The previous owner of my boat (keel-stepped mast) did not secure the locknuts on the turnbuckles one year, and as the boat rocked and rolled on the mooring the rigging gradually loosened. The shock loading on the rigging as she rolled eventually snapped one of the shrouds (original 3/32" wire), That was one reason that my boat has the upgraded 1/8" wire.

I have kept my boat on a semi-protected mooring for 20 years, previous owner had her there for 9 years, she has stayed upright with no problems. I haul out if a major storm threatens, and at least remove the boom and covered sail along with the outboard for less major storms, If I can't get her out for a major storm I unstep the mast (and bring it ashore) and double the line on the mooring. During Hurricane "Gloria" In 1985 there was another DS II In a local harbor that was flipped over by the wind and waves. (This was a 1985 model) The hinged mast on that boat tore of one of the chainplates, destroyed the tabernacle/hinge ,and bent the mast. However, only cosmetic damage to top of cuddy. The keel-stepped mast on my boat might have (near 100% certainty) ripped up the cuddy top and likely caused damage inside as well. One of many reasons that I unstep my mast for major storm if I can't get boat out of water in time.

SUNBIRD wrote:The previous owner of my boat (keel-stepped mast) did not secure the locknuts on the turnbuckles one year, and as the boat rocked and rolled on the mooring the rigging gradually loosened. The shock loading on the rigging as she rolled eventually snapped one of the shrouds (original 3/32" wire), That was one reason that my boat has the upgraded 1/8" wire.

This is a little off topic but regarding the shroud snapping...

Where was the failure point? I'm just curious. The tensile strength of undamaged stainless wire rope should be around 1000 - 1200 lbs. so I would be surprised if the break would have been in the cable itself. Its interesting that most of the 1/8" SS wire ropes for stays claim almost double tensile strength over 3/32"