3 to 1 or 4 to 1 mainsheet rigging

[Scott]

i was thinking of changing to a 4 to 1 mainsheet from a 3 to 1 mainsheet i was wondering if there is any difference thanks

[persephone]

The difference is how much line you pull to get the same movement of the boom and how much effort it takes to pull it.
If you don't race, and don't mind a little extra time to sheet in then it will be easier as it will require less force to sheet in.

[talbot]

There are some other things that can help with mainsail control. There was a discussion about this on the forum a while back, initiated by a question about stern sheeting. One member pointed out that you have more leverage over the boom with a stern traveller.

Another modification that helps is using a ratchet block on the main swivel. Once I did both of those things, I found that I could handhold the main in just about any weather.

I had gone to double fiddle blocks, but I went back to a 3:1 system, because I no longer needed the extra purchase. The simpler rig not only doesn't require so much line going in and out, but weighs less and helps the boat respond better in light wind.

[K.C. Walker]

Talbot,

What ratchet block did you go with and you think it's a good fit? I've been planning to go this route for next year. I'm glad to hear that you like to set up. I've also been thinking about ratchet blocks for the jib sheets.

KC

[talbot]

Let's see, referring to the West Marine catalog, I believe I have a Ronstan C-Cleat Ball Bearing Base with medium Ronstan cam and fairlead. My swivel is a bit shorter than the one on the catalog, so it's probably not the exact same model. On my previous boat, I used the equivalent product from Harken (I think it's called the #205 Little Swivel Cam.)

I believe the ratchet mounted on the swivel is a 57mm Harken Ratchamatic. The Ratchamatic is kind of like a seat-belt restrain. Under light loads the sheave spins in both directions. As the load increases, the ratchet kicks in.

Good idea about ratchets for the jib leads. That the sail I have trouble controlling. I was considering some kind of purchase system, but the last thing I wanted was more lines and hardware flapping across the deck on a tack.

How are your jib cars? My '73 (or is it '74) DS has old Schaeffer cars with the swivel welded (not schackled) to the car. So I have to come up with replacement cars before I can do anything to the sheets.

I'm sure all it will take is lots of money. Did I mention that the hardware we've been discussing so far will total something like $165 new? Now we're talking about two small ratchets at $45 each, and for me, a couple of jib cars. Maybe $35 each. This on a boat I got for $900. Sigh.

[K.C. Walker]

Talbot,

I got my boat for $1000 and felt satisfied. I have since decided to take the view that it's like getting a "free" puppy or kitten. It's not the up front cost that gets you. Another way that I have rationalized the time and money spent on this boat is comparing it to the new price of a Cape Cod Shipbuilding boat at about $14,000, unless you want the race ready one for about $19,000. Regardless, we all know they are just holes in the water.

Thanks so much for your detailed rundown on the running gear! Mine is a 74 and I have the same jib cars as you have. The Schaeffer cars are kind of a pain to use and the only time I found that I really wanted to move the block back on the track was in a blow. In a big blow last summer the jib sheet yanked the little screws in the middle of the track right out of the coaming... and I had epoxied them in. Your local champion, Phill Root writes that he never changes the location of his jib car and it's always forward. I've been testing that on my boat to decide if I can just use a single location and skip the track. I haven't quite decided yet. It seems like I can still get a better twist and more open jib slot by moving the track back when it's really blowing. I'm guessing it has to do with the cut of my jib.

KC

[Peterw11]

K.C.

On my first time out on my '68 DS1, a sudden gust ripped the port track out of the coaming, leaving it hanging by a single screw, (and putting a nice bend in the track, to boot).

Figuring the wooden reinforcement behind the glass was a bit weak after 40 years, I just removed the remaining screw, bent the track back into shape and reinstalled it an inch back from it's original location.

I also added additional screws, in the unused holes in the track (it had 3, it now has 5 or 6, IIRC), and then did the same to the starboard side.

Just a bit of extra strength, and now those babies aren't going anywhere.
The cars still slide as before.

You may as well keep the tracks in place, rather than abandon them for a single car location. It's a nice little feature, although of minimal use to singlehanded cruisers such as myself.

At this stage, I'm happy just making the boat move and keeping a halfway decent sail shape. The incremental increases in speed don't really matter.

[K.C. Walker]

Peter,

It's interesting that you indicate that originally the track on your boat did not have small screws in the middle holes. That is what pulled out on my boat and the wood was pretty solid, though they were probably just in the mahogany. The big old 2 inch number 12 screws at the ends held fine. What I find with the little screws in the middle is the thumb screw on the car needs to be backed out quite a bit to get over the heads of the small oval head screws I used. It's better than the pan heads that were in there before, though. It just a little fiddly when the wind gets up and I'm single-handed, I'm guessing you know what I mean.

KC

[seandwyer]

Hey guys - this is interesting since I keep considering the possible change to something else for the main as well. I'd never really considered the jib, but now that you mention it - having finally done a bit of single handing, the jib is the place I could use some help - does anyone have a picture of what some of these change outs look like? I'm having a hard time envisioning the block assembly for the main - I still am using the standard - Crosby I guess people call it. It works, but when it's blowing can be a little difficult to pull back in with one hand on the tiller. Any visuals would be appreciated. Talbot, I feel you considering cost. I paid very little for my boat and everything in it's original state still works just fine, so its a little hard to get rid of things in exchange for expensive things. The new ones may work a lot better, but it's so hard to remove things that are perfectly fine - you know? I just wish it were easier when I am alone. If I always had someone with me (above the age of 7) I wouldn't worry about it - but I don't. I'm either alone, or may as well be alone!

[talbot]

I unrigged my boat and put it under the tarp last weekend, but I'll see if I have any old photos that show the main swivel and stern traveller. This as been discussed a fair amount on the forum, and I'll bet there are some other photos kicking around.

When I installed oarlocks on my first DS (a '79), I used the new inspection port to take a look at the back side of the jib tracks. O'Day had glassed a piece of plywood on to the backside of the inner hull to hold the screws, and that plank was nearly rotted away. I was going to replace it, but a careless driver settled the issue for me by totaling the boat on its trailer. Anyway, that plywood backing may be the source of some of the track problems on the DS II. Ironically, my replacement boat(an even-older '73) had its backing plank in good condition. FYI, when I described the rotten plank to Rudi at D&R, he said don't even try to replace it. Move the jib tracks to the top of the combing. That's where O'Day moved them in later years. And use a stainless backing plate. If I still have the boat when the '73 plywood rots out, I'll try it.

[GreenLake]

I had the same experience as Peter with the original tracks (also on a DS1). As these things go, that happened the first time I took out the boat.
My tracks were beyond repair, so I replaced them with Harken tracks.

In general, I've come to the conclusion that after a few decades all original wood reinforcements on these boats should be considered suspect and, if possible, replaced. Failing that, it might be possible to recondition some of it with penetrating epoxy.

WRT to the jib track positioning, I've found that with my new sails (Jotz) I can't seem to observe any difference in how the cars are positioned and they remain in the front. IIRC that fits the advice Hank Jotz gave me when I bought the sails.

I had added inhauls for the jib leads at the same time I upgraded the sails and those do make a difference in pointing.

[jeadstx]

When I got my DS2 several of the screws were missing on the track also. Part of the track was bent due to missing screws. I quickly found that trying to put new screws in wasn't going to work as there appeared to be nothing to screw into. My solution was to get the expandable sleeve/anchors that are used for putting screws in sheetrock. I found a size small enough (trail and error) to not interfere with the track, but large enough to hold the track in place. Track is secured in place and has worked for me so far.

John