DaySailer.org Forum

Since I have only used my DSII a few times, what are winds that are a little "too strong" to go out and have a good time. im all for putting the rail in the water, but Im trying to keep the girlfrind interested and not scare her to death. We had winds around 20 MPH today, and was going to go out, but I saw big boats with just the jibs up, and they were going like hell. Do DSII sail ok with just the jib up? Or would you be better sailing with just the main. I would have liked to try and reaf the main, but havnet quite figured out how to do that yet. My sail has the ropes down near the bottom to tie it to the boom, and I have tried that..but it just dont look right, so I figure I did something wrong.

If you have any reason to suspect that it's too windy - it's too windy. You can sail under jib alone, though it doesn't make for optimal performance. The reefing lines you describe must be made fast tightly (no slack) and this should be done working from the tack (forward corner of sail) to the clew (aftermost corner bent to the outhaul)...Knowing when to say when (as in "no go") is a feel that's acquired over time - sounds like your on the right tack!

I would say anything over 20 kts would require a competent sailer familiar with the DS but it does offer quite a challenge. I never liked sailing in heavy winds with just the jib as it brings the center of effort way too far forward. I prefer a reefed main. I have reef points in the main as you describe. Most any educational sailing book will explain this (and include diagrams). Anyway the reef grommets on the sail become your clew and tack (some boats have what is called jiffy reefing where there are already lines running through the grommets to make this easier). Once the reef grommets are in position on the boom (with adequate outhaul tension) then you run lines through the reef points and tie tightly around the boom (folding the foot of the sail neatly to minimize creases). Now obviously the main won't run all the way up the mast so you raise it until you have adequate tension and off you go.
Other items you would want for heavy air are a boom vang and hiking straps.

Have fun,
Shawn

In all the discussions of reefing - which I endorse as a measure that increases both safety and enjoyment - there is no discussion of smaller jibs. After I put the reef points in the main on my DS I, I calculated the reduction in the SA of the main and went looking for a jib that was that same percentage smaller than the standard working jib. Turned out that a used Blue Jay jib worked out fine. Makes a big difference being able to ballance the rig this way, and since used jibs are not that expensive you might want to give this a try. Did the same thing on my Typhoon with the same good effect so I expect that in general this is a good solution to reducing sail area while still keeping good sailing characteristics.

Stephen

Hello,

Question about the smaller jib sizes. Currently, I have 1 jiffy reef in the main.

I found a 28 square foot storm jib ($205), and I wondered if that would be a good area for the windier situations to match the reefed main?

I want to keep the boat balanced and steady in Apostle Islands, Lake Superior. I know most of the people sail in the fair weather only (10-15 knots), I do too, but when you are several miles out, sometimes you just have no choice, hoping you are best prepared.
On the bigger boat I found that reefing genoa/main make the difference between hanging for dear life and having a lunch in the cockpit table, same wind conditions, a big difference!

UkiDLucas wrote:
Question about the smaller jib sizes. Currently, I have 1 jiffy reef in the main.

You may want to have a sailmaker add another reef point. Or two. It will be much cheaper than a new jib, and better performance overall.

UkiDLucas wrote:
I found a 28 square foot storm jib ($205), and I wondered if that would be a good area for the windier situations to match the reefed main?

Not unless all of the following:
1. You have the main reefed so far that the head is below the head of the jib (about 3rd reef point).

2. It is a genuine storm jib, not a smaller jib from a smaller boat used as a storm jib. It should be made of heavy cloth (not lighter, which the jib of a smaller boat will be), the clew should be cut high ((a)to keep the jib out of the waves that may be expected when big wind blows across a big lake and (b) to keep the sheeting angle correct -- otherwise you will need to add another set of blocks for the jib sheets several feet forward of the standard).

3. You feel comfortable going out on the foredeck in those conditions to swap the jibs.

UkiDLucas wrote:
I want to keep the boat balanced and steady in Apostle Islands, Lake Superior. I know most of the people sail in the fair weather only (10-15 knots), I do too, but when you are several miles out, sometimes you just have no choice, hoping you are best prepared.
On the bigger boat I found that reefing genoa/main make the difference between hanging for dear life and having a lunch in the cockpit table, same wind conditions, a big difference!

By keeping the boat balanced, I will assume that you mean keeping just a slight amount of weather helm so that the boat will round up. Don't worry about that. The DS has a fractional rig with a rather small jib. Unless something else is rigged wrong, it will not overpower the main sail.

You *might* have a small negative weather helm while you keep the boat level, but when the wind gusts, the boat will heel, the center of effort of the rig will move to leeward and weather helm will climb rapidly and the boat will round up unless you fight it.

Handling the DS in strong weather:

Ensure that the jib halyard and sheet are tight to keep that sail as flat as possible. Put in a reef or two on the main, as much as you want or need to keep the ride level during the steady wind. Ease the main during a gust.

If you've run out of reefs and you are still heeling excessively during the steady wind, ease the main sheet and luff the main as needed to keep the boat flat, even if that means nearly completely luffing. The jib will keep a smooth airflow over the main and help your efficiency allowing you to make progress to windward. The main sail will help support the mast from pumping (flexing) fore and aft as well as provide drive.

Oh, and practice putting in a reef before you need it. Trying to figure it out when things are rough isn't fun. Remember that the the loads on the sail need to be at the (new, reefed) tack and clew only. The middle ties are just to hold the wad of fabric on the boom. Wind loads should not be taken on those points or you will tear the sail.

Practice. Practice. Practice. Know your limits.

I am comfortable sailing my boat single-handed up to about 10-12 mph winds. After that, I try to get anyone I can (normally any adult or a sailing educated kid) to come out with me. An extra set of hands when the wind is up is always helpful. With my DS II, I have my hands full in 15+ mph with the tiller and mainsail.

Others I know with more experience will single-hand this boat in more conditions...I'm not one of them. I will try to get out if there are others at the club who can assist me if needed. But experience will tell you when you feel safe. My guideline, is if you step on the dock and your stomach suddenly drops out and you have ANY question about going out, don't do it!

Have fun!

Dan

I like the advice offered on handling the DS in strong winds, but I would be cautious about assuming that the DS jib can't overpower the main. I have found that if I take a knockdown when close hauled, just luffing the main may not bring me out. As the main luffs, the close-hauled jib takes over and swings the bow to leeward. If the boat is going over, the boom hits the water, preventing the sail from going out further. At the same time, if the jib gets caught in its cam, it keeps pulling the bow downwind. I try to handhold the sheet in strong winds, but when single-handing, sometimes I have to cleat down. I made my jib sheets long enough that even when hiking out I can keep the end of the line in my lap. The close calls I've had involved a sudden tip that caused a cleated line to fall away from me.

I sail my DS II on Buzzards Bay near Cape Cod, afternoon winds can get strong there. I have found that the addition of a hiking stick (Tiller extension) helps a lot when sailing in a breeze, especially if you are sailing solo. A boom Vang helps to flatten the main, depowering the sail to reduce heeling. I often sail with just the main if the wind picks up, and just the reefed main if it really picks up. To better keep the center of effort of the sails in line with the center of lateral resistance (CB) when sailing under Main alone, let's not forget that the DS is a CENTERBOARD boat and to reduce weather helm to a manageable point, it is best to raise the CB a bit, moving the balance aft to match the center of the sail area.
The best advice ever given to me about sailing a centerboard boat, is to always keep the mainsheet in your hand while sailing, use the camcleat to hold the tension, but keep the sheet in your hand to allow you to quickly release it if a gust of wind hits. I haven't tipped over yet in 12 seasons of sailing my DS II, or in 9 seasons with my Widgeon.