Clips - Tent, Spinnaker, or ??

[BaltJones]

I have a '65 DS1. It came with a spinnaker and associated sheet and other lines. It also has some yet-unidentified clips on each side of the boat, one at each aft corner and one midway back, somewhat near the jib blocks. Here are some photos.

Aft clips

Boat clips - 1.jpeg (312.3 KiB) Viewed 1679 times

Side clips

Boat clips - 2.jpeg (106.88 KiB) Viewed 1679 times

I have very limited experience with spinnakers in general and none on a Day Sailer. I'm wondering if these clips are for the spin sheet/guy line in place of an actual block. Has anyone encountered this setup?

My other thought is that the clips are related to a boom tent or similar cover. For those who have spinnaker rigging, are the aft clips about where you'd put a block for the sheets?

Thanks for any help,

Brian

[GreenLake]

The forward clips, positioned aft of the shrouds could be used to hold a guy. The actual part that is usually sold for that pretty similar in function: closed towards the outside, but guy can be "hooked in" from the inside. Usually, I think, not placed as far inboard, but I can't be sure, because I don't have something like that rigged for my spinnaker. (Use a search engine/browser to search the forum, not the internal search, and you might find something in the older posts).

I've seen pictures of aft blocks that are placed in front of the stern cleats. Often these allow the line to go forward below the deck to some turning block with cleat. I did something simpler that started out as a temporary solution while figuring out whether sailing with a spinnaker was for me. However, adding blocks like these to those clips in the back might work.



Before you use the clips for anything spinnaker-related, make sure that they are strong enough. If you have stern cleats, you might like to copy my setup. I found it does not interfere with using the cleats to tie up. In fact, these work so well, I've stopped thinking about a more "permanent" replacement.

As for the idea that they are for a boom tent, the curious part is that they open inward. However, that might work with a design that incorporates aluminum or fiberglass support that might push outward when installed.

[BaltJones]

Just to follow up on this post from last year in case anyone is looking at this in the future -

I was able to rig the spinnaker at the dock using the clips and they seemed to make sense for that application. I wasn't confident enough in either their strength or (more importantly) my abilities to try it while underway. What I didn't mention in the first post is that there are cleats on the inboard side of the coaming right at the cuddy where I cleated the lines after they passed through the aft clips and came back to the normal crew position.

Conclusion - clips were original rigging for the spinnaker, but I'd update the approach if I were going to be using it with any seriousness.

[GreenLake]

Very nice photo!

The wind conditions in your photo would be ideal for trying out a spinnaker. You want just enough wind to fill it and then you can focus on learning how to fly it without having to fight it. You also won't risk taking a bath if you make a mistake.

The static test doesn't necessarily tell you whether the line moves freely enough through those clips on the rear. That's why I gave you the suggestion about lashing a small block to them. But perhaps you did try to adjust the sail a bit at the dock with the spinnaker sheets loaded? If the friction is low enough, it might work. Something that can't be diagnosed remotely.

Good point about the cleats.

In light-ish winds it's not that hard to singlehand one of these. You can cleat the main and ignore the jib. That gives you two sheets to work, however, you may cleat the windward one (guy) as it sets the pole angle and that doesn't change that often if you can steer a steady angle relative to the wind. That means you only need to adjust the leeward one (sheet), and have a hand free for the tiller. (Some kind of tiller tamer or a bungee helps for those times you briefly need another hand).

If the wind is not too strong, it's also possible to hold both guy and sheet in the same hand. As you wave it around, the relative tension changes, which gives you the needed adjustments (once things are tuned). One interesting thing that you can do, which is not so easily done if you adjust both separately, you can effectively "rotate" the spinnaker as a whole, because as you move your hand holding both sheets, from side to side one releases while the other one tightens.

That's something I like to play with.

Looking forward to seeing another picture of this, but under way!

PS: on the DS we usually don't bother to drop the jib when under spinnaker.

[AlanH]

With the sheeting points so far forward on that spinnaker you might be able to get away without a pole downhaul....foreguy.

Then again, it could be very easy to rig one up with a block lashed to a cleat in the middle of the foredeck, if you wanted to do that.

[GreenLake]

I sailed in modest winds last weekend and because single handing decided to try doing without a pole. Hence no foreguy (downhaul). However the guy (windward sheet) had caught on the shroud below the turnbuckle. This is almost the same position as the clips on the OP's boat, and as with them it allowed the guy to be adjusted, just holding it at a steepercangle so it could pull down. This had the effect you suggest, giving just enough downward pull (in the condition) that I didn't need a pole to get the benefit of a downhaul.

Usually when I try to fly the Spinnaker without a pole it's for deep downwind courses. That time I could get it to work in much more reachy angles, despite not using the pole.

I'm sure this wasn't fully optimal, even though it "worked". The main benefit of skipping the pole was that launch and takedown was super easy and quick while single handing. That mattered because the occasion was a beer can race of sorts.

I've held off installing any spinnaker hooks in that location as I'm loath drilling more holes, but this was a pretty convincing experience.

[GreenLake]

On second lok I see no downhaul in the picture taken at the dock. Is that sufficient in higher wids and broad reaching. Just wondering.

[AlanH]

I can't see your foredeck because of the jib gathered up there, but it would be very easy to lash a block to the cleat that's probably there. From there, add a line that comes back to some cleat on the cabin top, and voila....foreguy.

[GreenLake]

A foreguy that is cleated in the middle of the foredeck has the side effect that it not only pulls down, but also pulls towards the centerline. I remember having issues with this even for an attachment point much closer to the mast than the foredeck cleat.