DaySailer.org Forum

Back seeking advice on 1967 DS1. I use it for 2 weeks, big family vacation, every 2 years on a NC barrier island where it is stored outside (I live in St. Louis). Needless to say, quite a salty boat by now. Next visit in a week, and original cam cleats are shot. Plan to pick up new Harken or similar before trip, but what to do with them?

1. Main cam seems straightforward--I think I can remove old and drill new holes on the plate where it is now to attach the new one. But if this is a bad idea, I'd love to know.

2. Jib cams are tougher, and I've seen at least 6 different methods of mounting them in these forums (deck, under coaming, cuddy lip, direct to cb trunk, custom bracket over cb). Little time for anything elaborate, so I'm thinking of just mounting them to the centerboard seats as shown here: https://forum.daysailer.org/tech_rigguide.php Is there a better idea? There's wood coaming around cockpit so deck mount might be tricky.

Here's a view of overall setup + closer up.



Can't tell thickness of sheets, but guessing 1/2"--if you think different, let me know!

On less important notes:
3. The metal rings that position the outboard motor (inside the well) are shot. Worth replacing? Not sure where to find, D&R doesn't seem to have them.



4. Easy way to add drain plug? Sounds risky from what I've read here and don't want to spend $88 on the D&R one, but... maybe just a hole in the right spot and a rubber plug that fits (+backup)? We don't use the boat much and it sits in the rain for 2 years at a time on a barrier island w hurricanes etc., and next time spars or other major item goes we'll probably retire it.

Thanks,
Dan

PapaPiranha wrote:Back seeking advice on 1967 DS1. I use it for 2 weeks, big family vacation, every 2 years on a NC barrier island where it is stored outside (I live in St. Louis). Needless to say, quite a salty boat by now. Next visit in a week, and original cam cleats are shot. Plan to pick up new Harken or similar before trip, but what to do with them?

Nice boat.

PapaPiranha wrote:1. Main cam seems straightforward--I think I can remove old and drill new holes on the plate where it is now to attach the new one. But if this is a bad idea, I'd love to know.

The mounting is in an embedded bronze plate that has the holes drilled and tapped. Might be tricky if you can't cleanly fit a new hole pattern without interfering with the old. Some people make an adapter plate instead (has both hole patterns, but can be sized so you can place both, perhaps using 45 degree rotation for the new ones.

But, perhaps this still has some life in it? Still sailing with the original setup on my boat. From the picture, it looks like a bit of rust that can be cleaned with phosporic acid or bar keepers friend.

What I would do, is replace the block above it, on the boom, with a ratchet block. Allows you to hold the sheet in your hand with less effort; you'll use the cleats less. Same can be used for the jib sheets. I'm partial to the Ronstan ones. put mine on "auto" and they disengage in light air (low pull).

PapaPiranha wrote:2. Jib cams are tougher, and I've seen at least 6 different methods of mounting them in these forums (deck, under coaming, cuddy lip, direct to cb trunk, custom bracket over cb). Little time for anything elaborate, so I'm thinking of just mounting them to the centerboard seats as shown here: https://forum.daysailer.org/tech_rigguide.php Is there a better idea? There's wood coaming around cockpit so deck mount might be tricky.

I used Harken small boat tracks, when my original ones failed. They coamings are already as far outboard as you ever want to go. I use inhaulers to bring the sheets further in, in moderate winds (they are not used for really light or for strong winds).

The [b]black [/b]cleat in the picture is one of the ones I use for the inhauls. I have two. They end in a small block (or even a low friction ring) through which you lead the jib sheet. When you pull on the inhaul, it pulls it sideways, as if your track was mounted a few inches closer to the centerline. I rig mine so they cross each other in the middle. That way, you can more easily operate them from the windward side.

For the cleats, nothing beats center cleating for flexibility in my book, but as shown, that is, non-captive (no bar over the cleat. With non-captive cleats and ratchet blocks, it's easy to pull the jib sheet from any seating position and then reach over with hand (or foot) to cleat them. That way, you can take a kid sailing and help out cleating a jib, which is otherwise hard if you are not sitting in the crew position. Also helps in single handing. With a ratchet block, you may find you need to cleat less often.



Build yourself a little platform. Mine was custom made for very little money at a machine shop, but if you can bend and drill metal, you can do your own. Some people have used wood. The white ends are for the bolts that go through the CB trunk, just below the top. Note that the cleats sit on wedges so they are angled in the direction of pull.

PapaPiranha wrote:
Can't tell thickness of sheets, but guessing 1/2"--if you think different, let me know!

There's an entire thread here on the forum called "Rope for various lines" and it tells all. The key is not to go overboard, the strength requirements are not excessive. You want something that runs well through the blocks and cleats but is also grippy. The materials discussed can be used for either type of sheet.

PapaPiranha wrote:3. The metal rings that position the outboard motor (inside the well) are shot. Worth replacing? Not sure where to find, D&R doesn't seem to have them.

Not original. Take a piece of white plastic 1/2" cutting board and make a strip across the top, with two indents. That will prevent the motor from sliding around should the clamp not be tight enough. That cutting board material is great stuff for many things, as long as you don't need to glue it.

PapaPiranha wrote:4. Easy way to add drain plug? Sounds risky from what I've read here and don't want to spend $88 on the D&R one, but... maybe just a hole in the right spot and a rubber plug that fits (+backup)? We don't use the boat much and it sits in the rain for 2 years at a time on a barrier island w hurricanes etc., and next time spars or other major item goes we'll probably retire it.

Normally, these boats had a drain plug about 2" aft of the CB trunk. Under the floor boards. May be corroded by now. I glassed over mine, but store my boat at a slight angle so it can drain it out a drain plug at the back of the cockpit. You can get those aftermarket at any marine shop. They are a bronze tube with a rubber plug about 1" in diameter.

If your boat has none, get the kit, drill a suitable hole and seal it with epoxy. Then bed the tube with caulk. You don't want water to seep into the laminate (or the wooden reinforcement that may be present). Therefore the need to seal everything really well. I wouldn't use epoxy for the tube because it makes it impossible to remove.

Thanks so much -- this is all extremely helpful. Brilliant setup on your boat--never thought (or heard) of inhaulers but will keep that in mind and might add them.

Will look for drain plug in West Marine (only place I know of here in St. Louis), and like your idea for the outboard mount. Forgot that last trip I almost lost the motor before a local friend pointed out it was getting loose. He told me of a friend who had a brand new outboard (25, 75hp? expensive anyway) and it went overboard forever on the first day, ack.

Cams--never heard of the ratchet blocks but sound like a great idea. I'm going to try to go cheap and see how we do without them, but luckily shipping is pretty fast these days. I just found an invoice from Rudy at D&R from last trip for a Ronstan cam cleat that was intended for the main, so that must still be on the boat b/c we never installed it. Sounds like we had a temp fix by screwing down 1/2 of the cam on the mainsheet since the other 1/2 still had a good spring and was enough to make it work.

I'd like to give the jib cam platform a try, but will likely need to rely on my own tools or the auto shop on the island to do it. Going to see if a hardware store can sell me a sheet of stainless (or galvanized or aluminum?) cut to a good size and thin enough for me to bend over a board or something. Or see if my Dremel or oscillating tool can do the cutting.

Failing that, I'm hopeful I can just get a workable solution screwing the cams down to the centerboard seat on either side with fairleads. Not pretty but as you can see we've given up on pretty As long as the family gets in some sailing fun.

If you can bend something in the right shape, that's half the battle. The holes are easier with a drill press, but that's not mandatory. The previous owner used a standard aluminum channel or square tube with one side cut off. I'm sure it worked well for him, but when I got the boat, corrosion had advanced to the point that I had to get a replacement within a few years of purchase. Also, his cam cleats had weathered to a degree that replacing the whole setup was a no-brainer. But I'm sure it took years under his ownership to get there. So keep that in mind as an option.

I simply took his original and lifted some critical measurements of it for the shop. Didn't change how the thing is bolted to the CB trunk, for example.

Good luck and have yourselves a great time!!

Thanks, Greenlake--just got a line on a metal supply shop and will try to get there before we leave! Offhand if you know the dimensions that'd be very helpful, esp if I find something like the aluminum channel--I guess the relevant one is the width of the CB trunk, as I figure 2 cam cleats will be about 6 inches in length. I can probably guess well enough from the photos.

I found some synthetic wood at West Marine, called Star Board by Taco Marine--might do the trick but only 1/4" thick so I suspect it'll be too thin for screws to provide a secure base for the cams given the force on the sheets. They have thicker but then kind of wonky and it's expensive stuff.

In any case, we'll be sure to have a good time. Appreciate yours and all the other great advice on this forum!

Mine is 1.5" wide, 1.25" tall, and 8.75" long. It sits on a slight recess on the CB trunk. Not sure whether the PO ground away a bit of material on each side to provide better fit for his design or whether the recess is original. There's enough laminate there, so there's no chance you'll weaken it if you take 1/16" off the sides of the CB trunk for the top 3/4" or so.

I and to drill a bit of a recess into the top of the trunk at the location of the screws for the cam cleats. They and the bolts were sticking out a bit on the underside and there wasn't enough clearance. Again, no worries about hurting the strength. You just don't want to stop short of leaving an actual opening because the insides will have sloshing water under pressure once you are underway.

Just what I needed--went to a metal supply shop today, was in a hurry so I just got two 8" pieces of standard aluminum channel, one same width as yours and the other a little wider in case that fits better (hopefully I don't drill through the CB! But I doubt it gets that high, esp w my saggy centerboard).

Assuming cams really need replacing now I may try to snag a couple with built in fairleads since it may be tough to fit separate ones on that narrow a base, and I'm too cheap to add ratchet blocks at this point. I'll post follow-up if I end up doing any mods. Naturally after 2 years in the elements it's an open question if the trailer will even hold together and who knows what else it'll need, but friend says it looks fine.... But if it's not too gnarly I look forward to trying this out. The Boat is sort of a sacred object in our family, so taking a drill to the fiberglass will be quite the novelty.

Thanks,
Dan