Rudder install blocked by transom gunwale

[BaltimoreChess]

Just about to get this boat - finally - to the slip after lots of repairs. Last few fixes i'm working through is when i tried to put rudder back on into new gudgeons and found they didn't fit. Also realized rudder doesn't fit onto boat because transom gunwale is blocking. Pics attached and details below. Interested to know if anyone is familiar with first issue below. Second issue is a "bonus", and lower priority.

Rudder can’t go into gudgeons; blocked by transom gunwale
There were't any old/sealed holes in transom to indicate gudgeons were moved at some point. Makes me wonder if we have wrong rudder. Or possibly wrong pintles. This boat had a chunk missing from center of transom gunwale when we bought it. I assume that was to allow rudder to be installed/removed. Sine I just fixed that mess i'm disinclined to wreck the gunwale again, so I'll take off pintles from rudder to install/remove the rudder. I’ve seen similar scenario in pics of other daysailers sometimes. Have other folks seen this and is it a common problem?

Rudder pintles don’t fit into new gudgeons
We ordered new gudgeons that are supposed to be correct size for the DS II. (I trust Rudy/drmarine, he knows all!) However pintles on rudder don’t fit - gudgeons are just barely too small. Looking at the logo on old gudgeon I found online they were made by Stuart Marine. Gonna try for new ones or put old ones on (though they're a mess..)

[GreenLake]

From your picture, the old gudgeons seem perfectly serviceable. Might want to polish them up a bit. So, I wouldn't bother getting any new parts here until you get new pintles, so you can buy a matching set (but beware, pintles may have different bracket designs and possibly won't fit your rudder head).

As for the transom overhang. I would open a clean channel, with nicely rounded edges that don't look like damage, but look designed. Done.

I would never consider unbolting the pintles to get the rudder off. Too cumbersome (I would need to do this weekly), and if not bolted, but screwed in, that joint is definitely not designed to be undone repeatedly.

Finally, these old boats were not built to the kind of manufacturing tolerances that we are used to nowadays. Having a matching set of gudgeons and pintles was what counted, not the nominal diameter of the pin. I don't think they anticipated people doing repairs on these things over half a century later.

This goes even more so for the way deck and hull fit together. Sometimes, the build was not just "loose" but outright sloppy, like with those DSIIs where the support under the cuddy floor for the compression post does not actually line up at all with said post. Lots of horror stories in these pages. Don't be disheartened, try not to overcorrect for some of these problems. Just get to where you can sail with the hull the way it was built.

[Alan]

I have a notch like that in the transom of my 1980 DSII, so maybe it was a common problem. Looks like it was made with a chisel.

[BaltimoreChess]

@Alan
Super weird right about the notch in transom gunwale, right? I'm now guessing that someone replaced gudgeons and/or pintles at some point, new setup didn't put rudder out far enough so folks just cut out part of transom. (terrible decision btw)

@Greenlake
I'm picking up what you're putting down - 1.) don't borrow trouble and make it complicated, just get the boat in the water, 2.) boat isn't going to be perfect and wasn't necessarily designed to be.
New plan is: cut nice/smooth arc back into transom gunwale, seal with 3M 5200, gelcoat on top (did this last time and seems to have stuck), put old gudgeons back on, START SAILING THE BOAT. Before I do sail the boat i'm going to add a small stretch of marine plywood, with a matching arc cut out, to protect it going forward.

pics to come.

[GreenLake]

Unclear what precisely you are planning with the plywood. Protect the transom?

Also, happy to see that @Alan chimed in and can confirm that this was not an isolated case.

BTW, you'd want the opening to be such that the rudder can't slide out too freely, in case of capsize. It does need to be able to come out, but if the path is a bit constricted that the rudder needs to be "just so" to clear it, you gain a bit of incremental loss protection.

I rely on a double system: an L-shaped bracket that swings down and prevents the pintle from lifting while under way. Would normally not help in a capsize, but the bolt is a bit loose and ends up binding unless pushed out of the way. Second line of defense is a bent piece of flat stainless fastened to the rudder head that rides like a spring on the pintle and doesn't let the gudgeon slide along the pintle unless depressed. (This latter system seems to lose spring power over time, but works well when new (or newly bent back into shape).

Can't believe that I don't have a picture of this readily at hand, but I'll look through my collection.

[GreenLake]

Here's the transom detail showing the bottom of the L bracket. It swings like a pendulum from a bolt at the upper end of the stem of the L. This bolt goes through the transom and is hidden by the tiller in this and all other pictures I have.

Transom-Detail.jpg (39.54 KiB) Viewed 612 times

Here's the pintle detail, showing the spring lock device made from a piece of stainless steel. You can buy these in many boat supply stores, I got mine from https://www.fisheriessupply.com, but in a pinch, you can make your own, even.

Pintle-detail.jpg (44.27 KiB) Viewed 612 times

(Note: the picture was taken when I reinforced my home built rudder head.)