Tabernacle install?

[etonline]

I am getting ready to install mine. I am dancing around alot about cutting my mast!!

Any tips to make the job easier/better?

What did you cut it with to keep the ends square? I have a horizontal band saw I was thinking of using??

The info saying to use one of the hinge pins to keep the lower secction from raising up when standing the mast.....is there any reason not to fix the lower section to the step?

Thanks
Ed

[phil]

chop saw with carbide 40 to 80 tooth blade. feed slowly and clamp work=perfect cut

[etonline]

Oh, like a wood chop saw. I was thinking metal chop saw with the fiber blade.

[phil]

yep wood chop saw. done many. this is a good waytocut any aluminum extrusion

[talbot]

Not clear on the question about the hinge pins. There should be a steel plate riveted to the tabernacle, with a matching steel plate rivited to the mast butt. The tabernacle mast section is rivited to the cabin floor. The hinge pin through the aft holes in the steel plates is the pivot for raising the mast. The forward pin needs to be left out until the mast is up and stayed.

(In fact, it's optional. The standing rigging is what keeps the mast up, and if a stay were to break, the mast would fall over however it is pinned. The rivets holding the steel plates shear right off. Trust me.)

[navahoIII]

"The tabernacle mast section is rivited to the cabin floor."

I thought the "floor" (sole) wasn't involved at all. Isn't the tabernacle fastened to the cuddy top? I may be totally off. Is there anything between the mastjack on the keelson and the underside of the cuddy top? Ours has a pretty strong pipe running the length of it. Do all cuddy-stepped DSs have that additional reinforcement of a pipe to take some stress off the cuddy top?

[seandwyer]

If the tabernacle is like mine, the larger plate is fastened to the mast stub (as it has been called), about 2 inches above the cuddy and the smaller plate is fastened to the base of the rest of the mast.

As for the floor - in mine as many others, there is no mast jack. A casting is screwed on to the top of the keelson and the mast stub just sits on top of the casting. As many have expressed, it has a tendency to pop off of the casting when you raise the mast, so I have fastened the mast stub to the casting with a self tapping screw.

As for rivets, I haven't really used any - but have opted for stainless screws. Even attaching the tabernacle - it had been fastened with steel screws that had rusted so substantially that I had to drill all of them out - four on each piece of mast. I replaced with stainless screws, nuts and lock washers. This was hard trying to hold the locks and nuts inside the mast and then holding them with a needle nosed pliers while tightening from the outside with a screw driver, but I think this fastening system is stronger than rivets - however, as Talbot has already mentioned, the stays hold everything up. I have no delusions about the strength of the screws. What I really want to do is replace my standing rigging to the thicker stuff. I hadn't noticed until August but my port side shroud must have broken some time in the past before I bought the boat because it is fastened to the mast with several links of chain plate, being about 6 or 8 inches shorter than the starboard side which is fastened directly to the mast.

[GreenLake]

Deck step masts are supported by compression posts, unless there's a strong bulwark directly under the mast step, or some other substantial reeinforcement. That's true for all kinds of boats.

For the DS, I very much doubt that the unreinforced cuddy top could bear the load of a mast. Hence the use of a mast section or similar device to shore up the tabernacle from below. (I remember having seen descriptions of a variety of solutions, including retrofits, in this forum).

For a cut mast, but I suppose that would be more applicable to a DS1, you could use an existing mastjack instead of adding turnbuckles, but if you have the latter, there's no reason why you wouldn't fix the compression post (lower mast section) to the keelson (not the "floor") to prevent it from sliding up while the mast is lowered.

[talbot]

It sounds as if we might not be talking about a DS II. The only cuddy-mounted masts I've seen on Daysailers have been on DS III's. Did this thread get started in the wrong forum?

Regarding fastening the mast ends on with SS fittings: With steel fittings that are stronger than the mast material itself, if the mast ever does come down with both hinge pins in place, either through equipment failure or operator error during lowering, the mast itself will be damaged. The steel screws are likely to tear through the softer aluminum. the mast may need to be cut down and rerigged. If you use aluminum rivets, the only damage may be to the rivets themselves.

[etonline]

Well Talbot I am the op and we are talking about a DSII.

Just so you understand what we are talking about (and as Seandwyer stated) the instructions say "To raise the mast, remove the forward tabernacle pin, insert the stub in boat and seat bottom of mast on mast step. Insert pin through the mast step-This will keep it from rising when you are raising or lowering the mast."

Also the instructions call for the hinge pin to be removed from the step after raising then inserted into the forward hole in the tabernacle.....Which is what I do on the O-23 also.

And yes the stub must be used as the cabin roof is not strong enough to support the strain of the mast force with out it. the few boats that don't have a compression post have a heavily reinforced cabin roof in that area.

My question was is there a functional reason not to fix the mast stub to the mast step, which I think Seandwyer answered.

But he brought up another question...He said his is about 2" above the cuddy......Is there any reason to leave it that far above?

I finally saw one that had a tabernacle installed and it was cut so the stub was even with the roof and it appeared he had sealed the area so there was no leak between the mast and the roof area....seems like a good idea to me.

[talbot]

Got it. I think we must be talking about age of boat. My boats (1979 and 1973) both came with the extrusions inside the cuddy riveted in place. Previous owners probably did that. If you're a trailer-sailor, you constantly look for ways to simplify the tiresome rigging/unrigging. I imagine those long-ago owners did the shuffle with the hinge pins a few times and then got out the rivet gun.

As long as the overall mast dimension is preserved, I can't think of a compelling reason not to cut the extrusion so that the hinge is close to the cuddy top. I suppose a mast-attached boom vang would be positioned a little higher on the spar, and if you want to run the downhaul out to a deck cleat on the cuddy, the hinge plates might get in the way. But there are other ways to rig the vang and downhaul.

I recall that Roger's DS II book has a section on sealing the hole around the tabernacle. See if his approach fits in with what you have in mind.

[dannyb9]

i too considered placing the tabernacle closer to the deck. that is until i saw, after installing the tabernacle as per dr instructions, that the mast, hinged, when leaned back so that it rested on the rear deck, barely cleared the rear edge of the cuddy. if the tabernacle were lower, the mast would rest on the rear edge of the cuddy instead, with a lot of leverage- that could damage the mast and possibly lever the mast step up off the keel.
that said, i am having an issue with the jib sheets getting caught on the tabernacle during tacks. i'm looking for solutions. maybe the tupperware bowl ...

[etonline]

Well I just dry fit the tabernacle in the hole and measured from the mast step up....also have a wear mark on the mast from the cuddy opening. Looks to be about 24.25".

Me thinks I am going to cut it there and have the tabernacle even with the cuddy roof.....seems to have two advantages. 1) no leaks into the cuddy with a little sealent. 2) less fouling of the jib sheets.

Also on my O-23 the turning blocks for the halyards run to the cockpit are mounted on the tabernacle plate...and it might be a spot to hook the boom vang.

I think the mast lying on the trailing edge of the cuddy will be ok if I secure the mast stub to the original step and use a life vest etc. to protect the cuddy roof for the short time the mast will be laying there.

Thanks guys for letting me work this through with you. It will probably be a Dec. project when I get a slow time at my shop, but I'll report back with photos when done.....I'll also be watch this thread to see if anyone comes up with any other negatives till then.

Later
Ed

[talbot]

This is a little off-thread, but in response to the question about sheets hanging on the tabernacle plates:

There was a discussion of this a while back on one of the DS forums, with various suggestions. One was to use a piece of split garden hose around the tabernacle.

I took an old elbow wrap (like you get in a drug store for relieving tennis elbow) and put it around the mast stub below the tabernacle. Once the mast is raised, I pull it up around the tabernacle like a little muffler. It seems to soften the edges enough that I haven't had any fouled sheets since. The wrap I had was elastic knit, but I imagine a neoprene wrap would be even more effective.

[Roger]

as dannyb9 correctly states, there is a sligh fowrward tilt to the cuddy roof. When you remove the forward pin, and forestay, and allow the mast to hinge back into the mast crutch; it will be level to the boat only if the hinge is a couple of inches above the cuddy deck. That aft end of the cuddy roof has a bit of a lip on it as well, and you don't want your mast resting on this. When trailering, you will want to also have a mast crutch on the winch post of your trailer so that the mast clears the cuddy while travelling. Hope this helps. I can send you pictures of the cut mast/tabernacle if you send me a request at roger02attmtsdottnet replacing the att and dott with the appropriate substitutes.