DS for New Sailors in Mid 50's

[DMD]

Hi

Have been sailing with friends, taking lessons, etc, for 2 yrs.
Sailing medium size lakes in southern WIS; not Lake Michigan.
Will purchase a boat in spring. I think the DS is the right boat.
My wife is not sailor and wants a smooth cruising boat.
Same for me. Want to pull no more than 1500#
Steve Henkel writes a book about trailerable sailboats and DS is not in it.
He talks about 'motion index' which is defined as comfort, room, stability, etc..

1-Your thoughts about purchasing a DS with our interests to cruise only (no overnight)?
2-Any indication of motion or comfort index for the DS?

I have followed this site for a couple of yrs and find it helpful

[pnichols]

I have been sailing since I was 16 and I am now 63!

I have had many sailboats during my sailing journey; two of them Day Sailors, a DSII and currently a DSI, which I just restored and love. I also owned a O'Day Mariner for a time.

As I said, I started sailing at 16 with a little 8ft. dory. I have owned a number of small and large sail boats. I have also raced for 20+ years on a number of different designs and classes.

So it is with this experience that I highly recommend a Day Sailor. I personally prefer the DSI but you should judge for yourself which model is right for you. (DSI, DSII, DSIII). These are fantastic little trailerable boats (I have no idea why this little boat was left out of Steve Henkel's book).

This boat has it all for a sailor. It has good performance. It is easy to trailer (you will not even know it is behind the car or truck). It is quickly set up and rigged. It can be raced. It has a nice roomy cockpit, easily rigged, lots of storage. I find it a great lake boat and with a little experience and care it can be sailed in the ocean as well. (I live in Northern CA)

However, if you want to weekend cruise and want a boat that is a little bigger then I might recommend the Mariner. The configurations of the Day Sailor and Mariner are very close; cousins you might say.

Either way these two boats are great all purpose sailboats.

I hope this helps.

[GreenLake]

It is easy to trailer (you will not even know it is behind the car or truck).

Isn't that ever the case! Just don't back up suddenly, having forgotten you have a trailer in the back!

Medium size lakes sounds about right for a DS. Just checked out the Wikipedia for Green Lake in Wis. (not a namesake). From what I read, that would seem a great lake for the DS.

I've sailed on lakes that size. They're big enough so you don't get to visit every single corner each time you sail on them, and yet not so big that you get big waves or even swell.

One Lake I didn't enjoy with the DS was surrounded by hills/mountains in a way that made the winds very erratic. Having to deal with very sudden and strong wind-shifts is not the way you'll have fun in a DS - esp. if you have a non-sailor with you.

Mind you, the DS handled the gusts quite well, by first heeling, then rounding up, somewhat like twisting out from under the wind. Worked every time and I never got close to capsizing. However, it's not the kind of thing I want to put "passengers" through, so I now stay away from high shores and the eddies they bring with them.

I've limited myself to day cruises - sometimes they go into the night (I love night sailing under the right conditions), but they don't involve overnight stays.

That said, I can see how the DS would be great to take a moderate supply of camping gear with, to stay overnight on shore somewhere. But those who sleep on a DS must be the kind of person who would think nothing of bivouacking in a bag suspended half way up a mountain.

Doable, but a bit hard core, in my view.

I've taken many people over the years, most of them not experienced sailors. The DS responds more deliberate and more forgiving than other boats I have been on, which makes it a lot easier on newbie crew. In most conditions, it can be sailed dry.

The boom is high on a DS, so you don't need to crouch during tacks and an unexpected gybe will not threaten seated crew or passengers. You do need to shift weight, but many non-sailor friends are happy to volunteer as "live ballast" in exchange for a cruise.

If you plan on cruising, have a reef put in the main and add a reef hook or single line reefing (if you've followed the forum, you know where we discussed these in the past). Being able to depower will keep your crew happy.

So, unless you have some additional concerns that you didn't mention, I see no reason why you couldn't be happy with a DS.

[algonquin]

Although I haven’t actually seen a “motion index" for the DS I do find it to be an active sailors boat.

I have had larger boats that because of ballast and heavy displacement weight didn’t require the attention to the environmental changes that the DS does. The captain of the DS must be alert and at the ready. Reading the wind and the water surface for subtle changes. My other boats would easily trim and you could leave the tiller and move about. This is not the case for the DS. The boat is light and responsive and the helm requires attention.

For a sailor out for the day I find this acceptable. When I sail in my DS I enjoy each facet of its responsiveness. In short, the DS is not really for a lazy sailor and that is why I love it. This may be what you want for yourself but may not be what your spouse will enjoy. A leisurely sail in the DS can quickly change to a challenge. At that point it may no longer "smooth” as you indicate your wife wants.

As far as an all around boat the DS is super. Light to tow, easy to rig, and provides great sailing potential and a heavy dose of enjoyment. Usually it is offered at a reasonably priced package.

We have quite a few older sailors on this forum whom have owned some really nice larger sailboats over the years. Many have downsized to the DS. Brad

[jeadstx]

I started sailing at 15 on Lake Geneva in Wisconsin on my dad's O'Day Mariner. I'm 58 now and sail a DS2 on lakes in Central Texas. I mostly use my DS for day sailing and camp cruising. I've had my boat about 5 years. I attempted the Texas 200 (a 200 mile sail up the Texas coast) with my boat last June. I only made it 77 miles in two days and had to pull out, but not due to any problems with the boat. The boat handled very well even tho I had it way overloaded with equipment, something I will need to fix when I try the Texas 200 again next June. I find the Daysailer to be easy to trailer, and easy to setup, launch and retreive from the trailer.

John

[Peterw11]

When I got back into sailing a few years ago, I joined the local Community Sailing program to bring myself back up to speed. Aside from free lessons, we also had use of a number of different boats, from White 14's (the main fleet) to DS's 1 and 1, Flying Scots, and even a few O'Day 20's.

After I decided to take the plunge and buy my own, I set the parameters it needed to meet.

Easily to trailer and set up by a not so athletic 60 year old (me).
Better for day sailing than cruising
A good single hander
Stable in most weathers
Room for 3- 4 people
Parts availabilliy
Sturdy construction
Reasonable price.
Relatively easy to find on the used market.

I narrowed my choice down to either the DS or Scot.

Since Scots aren't that easy to find used, and the ones I did find were fairly pricey, that left the DS.

After a few months of Craigslist searching, I found my '68
DS1 in April of '09.
Despite it's age, it was complete, well cared for, and needed nothing but a new owner.

It does everything I want it to do, doesn't cost diddly to keep in good shape, and is one of the best investments I ever made.

I'm lucky in that I get to keep in on the water at a friend's lake house, 20 minutes from home. In the past 2 seasons, I've got about 60 sailing days under my belt.

If this sounds like what you think you'd like, you can't go wrong.

[DMD]

Hi

Thx to each of you that offered your ideas. My interests are much like yours and it is good to know that I am looking in the right direction.
Welcome all further comments.

DMD

[itsermam]

Well, we are all biased around here, but I would submit that the DS is probably the best boat you are going to find given your criteria. Easy to trailer, comfortable for 4 adults, quite stable for a dinghy thanks to the wide beam and still capable of giving you a thrill if you want to sail her hard.

When I was looking I narrowed it down to the DS, Scot and Wayfarer - the DS won on the affordability and availability factors and also because it had a fleet at the local sailing club. I have had mine for just about a year and have probably been out 30 times (the local sailing club is 5 minutes from my house). Can't say enough good things about how simple the DS is to sail and maintain. I often go out for a quick sail after work single-handed with no problems (and I am relatively new to sailing).

I am not sure about the motion of comfort index, but it sounds like our wives have similar ideas about what makes for a good sail - little to no heel, comfortable motion, etc... - and the DS is easy to keep flat and calm in a decent breeze. The joke on our boat is that I do not need an "incline-o-meter" to tell me the angle of heel because I have a "meep-o-meter" - when the wife goes "Meep!" I know it is time to ease the sails and flatten her out. No problem. On the other hand, if you, like I, prefer a little more excitement you can take a friend out in 20 knots, hang your butts out over the windward side and go like the hammers of hell with the leeward rail skimming the surface and you are still likely to get back in one piece. The DS is about as forgiving a sailboat as you are going to find without a keel - which is good when you are fairly new and given to doing things that might not be the best idea in retrospect.

I could go on and on, but you get the point...

All bias aside try to sail, sit in, catch a ride on, etc... as many different boats as you can before you buy.

Good luck in your search - hope we see some pictures of you and your new DS next summer!

[GreenLake]

About that motion index.

Usually has to do with how sudden a boat moves (accelerates up and down/sideways).

The DS is on the heavy end for an unballasted centerboard, so it tends to react more slowly to wind gusts than boats of similar size, yet lighter.

However, it's fairly flat, and has high form stability, which means that waves from the side should rock it a bit more than they would a narrower boat, or one that had a ballasted CB or keel.

The thing is that most people don't sail the DS where there are significant waves anyway (but rather in protected waters such as your mid-size lakes or bays). So that aspect of the "motion index" wouldn't apply.

The roughest conditions I've encountered have nearly all been from wakes - especially in narrow channels when they can reflect on top of each other, and where there's no (or not enough) wind to keep the boat steady.

The largest single wave we hit (or rather that hit us) was a wake from a passing container ship. I estimate it was 6-8' at the source, and still scary when, many minutes later, it finally got to us. In calm conditions we couldn't turn in time, so it hit us stern on, but the DS did not take water.

This summer I sailed in near identical 20+kn winds in the DS and in another boat of almost the same size and on the same lake (no swell). In the DS we stayed dry, on the other boat we go drenched (spray).

[ctenidae]

I've been in 6-8 swells on Long Island Sound. The waves themselves aren't so much the concern as the gusty winds that are usually present at the same time- catching a puff on the leeward side of a wave can be disconcerting. Most of the time the boat's overall movement is pretty subdued, but when the conditions are right, it moves in the best seasick-inducing manner of long rises and dips with just a touch of roll. Easily handleable if you're steering, but, like a passenger getting car sick, not as easy for crew sometimes. OF course, my wife/first mate is particularly susceptible.

[DMD]

Hi All

I still see replies are being posted and this is very much appreciated.
I will monitor this to see what others say or what stories are shared.

Thx.....DMD

[DMD]

When buying the DS what should be examined at the keel?
What are the considerations to know ref the keel when operating DS?

Maybe there is a post previously but I must have missed it.

Your thoughts?

DMD

[GreenLake]

Keel...

The DS is a centerboard boat, so it doesn't really have a keel.

When buying a DS, if you can inspect the CB or try it out sailing, it might allow you to find some issues. However, all (most) are easily fixed, so I don't know whether I know of any issues that would result in a recommendation not to buy a particular boat.

If the CB is banged up, or if there are cracks around the CB trunk, or if it leaks or is loose during a test sail, you might use that to bargain down the price - if the boat was sold as being in excellent or very good condition.

For a DS II, there's the issue that the CB cable mechanism is prone to sticking. Also something that's fixable.

Anyway, if this wasn't the answer you were looking for, perhaps you could restate your question accordingly.

[DMD]

Good info and thx!

[DMD]

I had my eye on a DS but it got away on me.
Is there a particular place to look for DS to purchase?
I am looking for boat, trailer and motor.
I live in Chicago area and sail at Delavan Lake Wis (SW Wisc)

DMD