Main Sheet Rigging

[Ole RB]

How many different varations of the main sheet rigging do we have for the DS1?

Do you have photos to go along with your setup?

[Phill]

Hi, There are lots of different mainsheet/traveler set ups. You can get as complicated as you would like and can afford. Many like the midboom set up...Shin busters and spendy. Multiple controled stern travelers...Can look a bit like a spagetti factory. Or....go as simple as possible. I like to keep the DS simple and usable for 'Day Sailing' as well as racing. Lollipop is a 15 year evolution to KIS (keep it simple). Besides, six of the last eight Nats championships have been won with the simplest mainsheet/traveler setup.

Here are three pics of how the main/traveler work on Lollipop.


The mainsheet block and swivel cleat are in the original location.


The traveler uses the original factory blocks, as placed, for the two corners.

Originally the rear-center of the traveler triangle was terminated with a small brass hook that hooked into a knot in the center, keeping the traveler centered at all times. I added this set up after winning my first NATs.

I usually keep this traveler centered, unless its really blowing and then I let it out, about 9 - 12" off of the center line. When tacking, the traveler will self tack to either side. Downwind, I let the center line go completely, to shorten the mainsheet 'tween the traveler and boom. Dave Keran, current NATs champion, keeps his traveler centered always.


Hope this helps
'66
phill

[Ole RB]

Thanks Phil that was a big help!

[amazingsailordudes]

We use a mid boom traveler. We had the option when we bought the boat of an end-boom or mid-boom traveler. My dad was set on the mid-boom. I'm still not entirely sure why, it really hurts your shins, but apparently the mid-boom gives you more control over the sail than an end boom does. I've also heard the mid-boom helps stiffen the hull. I dunno...i think it's just more of a hassle...especially when tacking

[Peter McMinn]

I bought my 3 digit boat a few years ago from a guy (Cowboy Larry, Fresno) who swears by the rig he put together.

No traveler
3:1 midboom block system with cam cleat on the CB trunk
15:1 vang

Apparently this is a winning combo for this boat. Dave Keran (?) took it to 3rd at Nationals about 10 yrs ago.

All that bluster aside, I can't seem to center the end of the boom to satisfaction, and so thinking of reinstalling the original aft traveler triangle per Phill's arrangement above.

Here's a question to anyone who might know: what is the justification for replacing a travler with more reduction mid-boom and forward? Do any other DSrs do it this way, and if so, how do they center the boom?

[Roger]

My traveller is attached to the seat bottom, (through bolted) and runs from seatback to seatback. It is about an inch higher that the stock CB trunk mounted block. If I sheet the traveller car to windward, I can center the boom directly over the centerline of the boat. For beating, this configuration is great, especially, if I also haul in the lazy jib sheet to bring the clew of the jib to a position about 9" off center, five feet back from the tack. This is on an 18 degree vector, which really improves upwind performance. I can sail as close as 20 degrees to the wind, which gives me an amazingly small no go zone of only 40 degrees.

You can see pictures of my traveller setup here. http://groups.msn.com/RogerConrad/dsiid ... tures.msnw

[Phill]

Peter
Beware of sheeting in too close to centerline. With jib and main strapped in tight, you are pointing very high. However, with our small stubby centerboard, if you are not sailing in full + hiking winds, you are making soo much leeway that your velocity made good VMG is very poor. In lightwinds, both crew sitting in, you should never sheet closer than 12" to centerline. with both sitting on the rail, sheet about 4-6" from centerline. Only when full hiking can you approach sheeting the main to the centerline. Depending on your Jib, the best preformance for sheeting angle for overall wind conditions is between 17 and 21" from centerline. ( this is where the Barber "in" haulers bring the sheet at the aft edge of the cuddy.)

IMHO phill

[Roger]

Thanks for that clarification Phill. You are absolutely correct, the lower the wind, the lower the traveller. Further to you note, the closer you move to centerline, the greater the chances of stalling the rig. I actually tried to move the boom past center while watching the GPS speed. As it came past center it started slowing down. It is quite amazing to watch the gps speed as you let the traveller in and out. You soon realize as Phill stated, that speed is best attained when the sheet angle is maximized to the wind conditions. In high winds everything should be in tight, mainsheet, jib sheet, vang, cunningham, halyards, outhaul, traveller, and the crew should be out. In low winds everything should be loose, mainsheet, jib sheet, vang, cunningham, halyards, outhaul, traveller, and the crew should be in. Wind conditions in between should dictate settings in between the two extremes as well.

As an aside, before I installed the traveller, I was able to point 25 degrees off the wind. That day it was blowing 17 to 25 knots. In those similar conditions I can now point 20 degrees off the eye by using the traveller.

[calden]

At the risk of sounding incredibly stupid about equipment, Phill, what's the block-and-cam-cleat main sheet control unit technically called? I have the original on my boat and though functional, it's tough to get the mainsheet into the camcleat. I'm thinking the cams just be kind of worn smooth and have lost their grip - it happened with my Sunfish.

So if I knew the name of this unit I could start looking for a replacement.

Any suggestions about what to buy and where to get it would be appreciated. Not looking for a Harken top-line unit for racing or anything like that, but rather a functional replacement for original.

Thanks,
Carlos

[Roger]

Calden,

I have the exact replacement if you are interested. Mine still works fine. I replaced it with a traveller last year, so it is just sitting in the workshop.

BTW it is called a mainsheet fiddle block with stainless cheeks, delrin sheeves, cam cleat, stand up swivel.

It is posted on our yacht club website if you want to have a look at it there. http://www.pyc.mb.ca/NewPyc/ForSale.htm

You can e-mail me privately if you are interested in buying it. Cheque or Paypal work for me. roger02@mts.net

[dsheer]

Used Phill's traveller system, but with the triangle much smaller, only about 15" off the deck. I used two ronstan fiddle blocks to get a 4 to one advantage, and I really like having the extra advantage in high wind. It isn't bad in lower wind either, as the resistance in the blocks is slight. I simply mounted a 4" cleat on the afterdeck and ran the line through the center. It was cheap and works fine, adjusting the traveller is not hard, even under strain.

For soloing, it is very nice to have a tiller lock. I mounted two 3 1/2 inch cleats on the carlin under the afterdeck, and tied a piece of bungee between them. I mounted a jam cleat, jam forward, on the tiller. Simply stretching the cord over the jam cleat sets the tiller. It responds properly to the wind, too. In a steady breeze you can set it and do whatever needs doing.

Dan

[Peter McMinn]

Dan, could you post some pictures of your traveller. The reduction sounds interesting.

Peter

[dsheer]

Peter,

I'll put up some pics when i get home. I am a troglodyte when it comes to posting pics. Maybe this will get me to learn. Meanwhile, to bed. More Alps to climb tomorrow.

Dan

[bnnauti]

Attempting to modify my 3:1 mid boom mid sheet to utilize a traveler set-up like Phil shows. My question is should I use the single block and becket on the boom end and keep a 3:1 set-up at the mid-boom to centboard set-up?

Robert

[GreenLake]

As we are reviving old threads now, here's my response to an earlier post:

Used Phill's traveller system, but with the triangle much smaller, only about 15" off the deck. I used two Ronstan fiddle blocks to get a 4 to one advantage, and I really like having the extra advantage in high wind. It isn't bad in lower wind either, as the resistance in the blocks is slight. I simply mounted a 4" cleat on the afterdeck and ran the line through the center. It was cheap and works fine, adjusting the traveler is not hard, even under strain.

I also find that the 22" from Phill's writeup just looked too high and have reduced the height of the triangle to something more like the 15" value. Will need to experiment for a bit before I know whether this was a move in the right direction.

Using ratchet blocks may be a better answer. That is, in my experience, I don't have trouble getting up enough force to haul in extra sheet, but I can't sustain that effort for the long haul; with a ratchet block I can hold the main in my hand in stronger winds, but I'm not overmatched when trimming (even though the ratchet doesn't reduce the effort when tightening the main).